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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board

The Passion
Kathy
02/17/04 at 09:27:28
[slm] Not sure where to post this topic! Just a reminder for those Muslims involved in any kind of dawah work and media access to be prepared for when the public comes a calling about Mel Gibson's latest movie about Jesus AKA Isa pbuh. "THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST is a vivid depiction of the last 12 hours of Jesus Christ's life." Last night as I was watching bits and pieces of it with an interview with Mel and Diane Sawyer... I just know the phone will be ringing...
02/17/04 at 09:30:31
Kathy

Re: The Passion
se7en
02/19/04 at 01:23:13
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, you know what's weird I heard about this film?  that *two* of the people working on it were struck by lightning.. not saying that means anything.. but I think that's a little freaky..

Re: The Passion
SisterHania
02/19/04 at 01:59:36
[slm] When is the movie supposed to be released? I thought it was being banned by 'certain' groups who were worried it would make them look bad? [wlm]

Re: The Passion
M.F.
02/19/04 at 07:43:39
It's coming out on Ash Wednesday which I believe is next week. Personally I'd like to see it if I could, if only to get a better understanding of Christian beliefs for the purpose of da'wa.. A big part of Christian doctrine is the "sacrifice" and the crucifiction.. However, I wouldn't feel right about seeing a movie that is basically blasphemous to us Muslims, insulting to Allah subhanahu wa Ta'ala in portraying "God" or "the Son of God" These Ayahs in Surah Maryam always affect me greatly, PASSIONate words: [i]And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son. 89 Assuredly ye utter a disastrous thing 90 Whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins, 91 That ye ascribe unto the Beneficent a son, 92 When it is not meet for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should choose a son. 93 There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.[/i]
02/19/04 at 07:45:17
M.F.

Re: The Passion
jannah
02/19/04 at 09:00:46
wlm, Oh I forgot I wanted to watch that interview!   So what exactly is the controversy?? Because I mean there have been quite a few movies made about the Life of Christ and I wouldn't think Christians have the same objections to depicting prophets as we do? Is it just that it's very graphic? Or that certain groups object to it since it shows them in a bad light (ie. the Jews that "crucified" him)?

Re: The Passion
Ayla_A
02/19/04 at 09:50:34
[slm] Well Mel Gibson belongs to a certain sect of catholism, which does not approve of the churches recent changes "The Alliance for Catholic Traditions" which is considered an Ultra Orthadox "branch" of the catholic church. Gibson had his script translated into Latin and Aramaic (the church up to about 25 years ago held all services in Latin and The alliance believes that it should still be this way.  From my understanding there will not be subtitles in this movie, so it will be hard for non latin speakers to understand it. I believe that it is one group that is having problems with this movie... [wlm] :-)Ayla_A

Re: The Passion
Moe_D
02/24/04 at 18:37:51
Feb. 24, 2004. 01:00 AM   Canadian Jews split on Passion Fretful responses to T.O. screening `Intent to attack' lacking, says one GREG BONNELL CANADIAN PRESS Several prominent members of the Canadian Jewish community got their first look at Mel Gibson's controversial film The Passion Of The Christ yesterday, but opinion on whether the work is anti-Semitic remains divided. "I think it's a thousand times worse than what I anticipated ... in terms of depicting the Jewish community in an evil manner," said Frank Dimant, executive vice-president of B'nai Brith Canada. Although Dimant was reluctant to make specific criticisms in advance of the film's theatrical release, he wasn't impressed by its violent imagery and its treatment of Jews. The film, which opens in 138 Canadian theatres tomorrow, has been hailed by many Christian leaders as a powerful telling of the last hours of Jesus Christ and not at all anti-Semitic. At issue is the blame placed on the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ, a belief which formed the basis of two millennia of persecution in Europe. That teaching was renounced by the Roman Catholic Church in the 1960s. Further adding to the controversy are questions surrounding Gibson's faith — he adheres to a strict interpretation of Catholicism that predates the reforms of 40 years ago. "When one wants to call something anti-Semitic, there has to be an intent to attack," said Manuel Prutschi, national executive director of Canadian Jewish Congress. "The purpose of this film is to move Christians, not to attack Jews," said Prutschi, who attended the same screening as Dimant. How Christians digest the information presented is the important thing, he said. "We feel fairly confident that Christians, certainly in Canada, are quite sophisticated now to understand what anti-Semitism is all about and the evil that it is. That's not what they're going to be coming away with." The message imparted to moviegoers is of concern to Adele Reinhartz, dean of graduate studies at Wilfrid Laurier University in Waterloo. "It's not intended to make people hate Jews," said Reinhartz, who saw the film last week. "But I think if you go in there with preconceived negative notions about Jews, if you already have a latent anti-Semitism, then it will just reinforce that." Having done her PhD dissertation on the Gospel of John, Reinhartz was keenly aware of the source material that director Gibson drew upon. "All the Gospels, to a greater or lesser extent, do place moral responsibility on the Jews." But scenes in which Jewish children transform into demons and Satan walks among the Jewish crowds as they clamour for Jesus's death were "over the top," said Reinhartz. "Gibson didn't have to do that" to tell the story of the crucifixion. The film also presents a very narrow depiction of the Jewish community, said Prutschi. "Basically you have two types of Jews, the priestly class and the Jews who were following Jesus," he said. "You certainly don't get a picture of the broad Jewish community." Father Thomas Rosica, who believes Gibson's film should serve as a springboard for bringing Jews and Christians closer together, attended yesterday's viewing alongside Prutschi. "It's not anti-Semitic, it's not anti-Jewish. It's a film for adults that invites adult reflection," said Rosica, a member of the Canadian Christian Jewish Consultation. "It takes the dialogue to a deeper level. It's an invitation to Christian pastors and Jewish leaders to talk about these things with their congregations." To that end, Rosica will address the congregation of Toronto's Temple Beth Tzedek on The Passion during Friday's Sabbath service.

Re: The Passion
Moe_D
02/25/04 at 20:06:27
JESUS, SON OF MARY The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Hadith 652 "Behold! The angels said: 'O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter, and of (the company of) those nearest to God.'" The Holy Quran, 3:45 Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take you and raise you unto Myself and clear you (of the falsehoods) of those who deny the truth; I will make those who follow you superior to those who reject Faith, to the Day of Resurrection. Then shall you all return unto Me and I will judge between you as to the matters wherein you used to dispute." The Holy Quran, 3:55 ORANGE COUNTY CLERGYMEN SHARE 'PASSION' REACTION Ann Pepper, Orange County Register, 2/25/04 http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/ocr/article.do?id=82623 Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" opens in theaters nationwide today after weeks of unprecedented pre-opening chatter and advanced ticket sales. The opening was intentionally set on the first day of Lent - Ash Wednesday. It marks a season of soul-searching and repentance ending on Easter Sunday... Here's what the clergy experienced... IMAM YASSIR FAZAGA Jesus is not the possession of Christians only. There are 1.4 billion Muslims that do believe in Jesus, peace be upon him. Maybe not in the exact same way as Christians, but he is a very important figure in Islam. I thought that I would come to this movie and learn more about the values that he taught and the principles that he lived by. I appreciated the suffering that he has done, but as an "unchurched" person or an outsider, I really do not think it has added any more knowledge to me about the character of Jesus, except his commitment to his beliefs. I really do not get the point of why the violence was the focal point of the movie, but then I am coming from a non-Christian point of view. I liked that they would show the suffering of Jesus ... and then Jesus would say: 'Love your enemies.' It was skillfully placed in the midst of the suffering, but I think that message was lost in the violence. About anti-Semitism, I really appreciated the words of Pastor Smith, but I wonder if he was not there to remind the people, what kind of message will they take with them? In principle, we appreciate that people of the caliber of Jesus are being paid attention... Imam Yassir Fazaga, 31, is the religious leader of the Orange County Islamic Foundation mosque in Mission Viejo.

Re: The Passion
Ruqayyah
02/28/04 at 11:52:22
[slm] I went w/ a couple local MSA's to see The Passion last night and we discussed it afterwards. It does have subtitles (Mel Gibson had originally not wanted subtitles) but you almost don't really need them. They speak in Latin and Aramaic, and it was really interesting how a lot of the Aramaic words were very similar to Arabic. The movie was definitely one of, if not the most violent i've seen. there was prolly a good 10 mins where i couldn't even look at the screen and you could hear gasps among the audience and some sniffling and crying. I definitely wouldn't take anyone under 18 to this movie because it is pretty violent in terms of the torture depicted. There are a lot of interesting themes in the movie, like persecution, being able to know the truth when you see it, to name a couple. it was definitely intense and a lot of the images just really stick with you. [wlm] ruqayyah

Re: The Passion
Ameeraana
02/28/04 at 17:38:19
[wlm]    I am very confused about the thought that Jesus died for everyones' sins.  Wasn't he killed because he had too many followers and he became hated by the Romans and the Jews??

Re: The Passion
Abu_Hamza
02/29/04 at 17:59:48
[slm] Ameera, From the Christian perspective (post 1960s) ... The Roman authorities killed Christ because they didn't like him.  But God *let* them kill His Son, and He willed and planned it that way, because he *wanted* His Son to be tortured and die on the cross.  He wanted the blood of His Son to be spilled, so that through it the entire humanity may be saved.  It was a Sacrifice to liberate human beings from the burden of their sins. Of course all of this is rejected in Islam because of reasons that we all know. Abu Hamza

Re: The Passion
Abu_Hamza
03/02/04 at 00:26:06
[slm] I was asked to go ahead and explain the last line of my previous post, in case some of the Muslims on the board may not be aware of where exactly we stand regarding Jesus (pbuh). Our belief is that God is One, without any partner or son.  He is One in the purest sense of that word, with no triune attributes.  Furthermore, we believe that when Adam and Eve disobeyed God (Allah) in the Garden of Eden, they were subsequently extremely remorseful for their mistake and repented to Allah (swt).  We believe that Allah possesses the attribute of Love, Compassion and Forgiveness (Rahmah/Love being his overriding attribute), and thus He forgave Adam and Eve for their mistake.   This whole event set a precedent for the children of Adam.  Allah made man as a creature who would err, who would sin.  And He wished that man would return to him whenever he sinned, with sincere shame and repentance, so that He would forgive man and thus draw him closer to Him.  This, then, became the means to achieve salvation for man in the Afterlife. We do not believe that God has to atone for man's sins by sacrificing someone.  We believe He can simply forgive, and that a sincere repentance from man followed by God's forgiveness is enough for man to be saved in the Afterlife. As far as what happened to Jesus, we believe God saved him from the disgrace of dying on the cross.  The Jews plotted to kill him, and boasted that they killed him, but they in fact had failed.  They were not successful in killing Jesus on the cross, but it appeared to them that they had done so.  Jesus was raised up into the heavens by God, to remain there until an appointed time when he will return to complete the rest of his life and mission. As far as all the historical data that suggests that Jesus died on the cross, and "everyone witnessed it"!  There are two responses to it: One, the majority of the Muslim scholars say that the appearance of another man (most likely Peter, the disciple of Jesus who deceived him) was transformed into that of Jesus.  So this man was made to look like Jesus, and he was crucified.  Jesus, on the other hand, was saved by Allah and raised up to the heavens.  So the people saw the face of Jesus being crucified, but God had fooled his enemies through another miracle of Jesus. Two, some Muslim scholars have proposed (using the Bible as their source) that Jesus may have been put on the cross, but that he did not *die* on the cross.  He was taken down too early, and he was alive in the tomb from where he later escaped with the help of Mary Magdalene, and later ascended to the heavens. The truth of the matter is, we are not told by Allah or His Messenger [saw] what *exactly* happened with Jesus.  All that the text tells us is that he was neither killed nor crucified, but it appeared to the people that he was, and that he was actually raised up.   Of course this is all a summary, and there is a lot of material out there on this topic that you can consult. Wallahu ta'ala a'lam.
03/02/04 at 00:38:12
Abu_Hamza

Re: The Passion
al-ajnabia
03/02/04 at 01:09:03
[slm] I think you meant Judas was the most likely one and he betrayed Jesus, I think Peter denied Jesus three times before the crowing of the cock or something like that, and just a side note, I dont know eaxtily where but I read somewhere that judas died by hanging himself on a tree in the Bible which made me wonder if that was a reference to the majority opinion. But I dont know. I never lasted a longer welcome in sunday school than a week or two at a time befor they found out I didnt beleive jesus was God

Re: The Passion
Abu_Hamza
03/02/04 at 09:44:47
You're right, sorry about that.  That was a typo from me. Jazak Allahu khairan.

Re: The Passion
nouha
03/03/04 at 21:09:07
[slm] the only thing i heard it was very violent and the jews were blamed for it.  for once they cant blame us muslims for it... we didnt "exist"... ;)...(ok thats the end of that joke) but anyways just a question... the msa pres heard that a few ppl from my college were going to see it and he thought it was shirk?? because its intention was to convert people, or make ppl, such as us muslims,doubt our beliefs.... anyone who went to go see it.... did u blv that was true?  is it shirk? maybe only an imam can answer that part? one more thing... if we(muslims) arent supposed to draw pictures of  Prophet Muhammad  [saw], or have others imitate him... is it allowed to draw/have others imitate the other prophets...just wondering... ??? ...and if it isnt... that means we shudnt be watching this movie right? wud u have watched "The message" if they had a man actually playing the Prophet  [saw]? (astaghfirulah....) just wanna hear your thoughts...all are welcome...:) wasalam nouha:)

Re: The Passion
rkhan
03/08/04 at 02:02:06
[slm] Just read this article and thought this reviewer had an interesting take on the movie. It just confirms my hunch that Muslims are safer if they steer clear of movies which depict the prophets of Islaam in person and from a point of view that is clearly unIslaamic and derogatory to them. W'allahu Aalam. Makow - 'The Passion' Is A Major Disappointment Satanic Hoax? By Henry Makow, PhD 3-7-4 Mel Gibson's "The Passion of Christ" angered and disheartened me. It was an excruciating experience and a waste of time. I would have left had I not been "on assignment." My readers know that I had hoped this movie might spur a religious revival. Then on reading reviews I had misgivings. One reviewer said it "celebrates humanity's hatred for Christ rather than Christ's love for humanity." (The hatred of Christ is satanic.) Another said it was "the Gospel according to the Marquis de Sade" (a Satanist.)   Suspicious of the mainstream media, I withdrew my misgivings opting to see the movie myself. Unfortunately, they were justified.   The movie depicts how Jesus did not try to save himself but rather embraced a brutal torture and death. I realize that for many Catholics, this has great significance, which I will touch on later. However I question its value for non-Catholics.     SADISM The movie mostly consists of Jesus being humiliated, beaten and flogged. The lashing is so severe no man could possibly survive, let alone carry a heavy cross. The severity is demonstrated when the centurion brings his lash down on a wooden desk: the splinters fly leaving a deep gash.   For what seems like an eternity, Jesus is flogged on his back. When this gruesome ordeal appears to be finally over; Jesus is released and rolls on to the ground. Then he is flogged on his chest for what seems like another eternity. No explanation for the Romans' animosity is provided.   Then he is taunted and beaten by centurions who place a crown of thorns on his head. Then he is whipped while carrying the cross. At one point he falls on the ground and the cross falls on top of him.   The movie inspires a disheartening sense of the feebleness of Gkd and the Power of Evil. The rumblings in heaven after the Crucifixion do not dispel this sickening feeling. That's why I give credence to those critics who suspect Gibson of a satanic agenda.   While scourging is mentioned in the Gospels, it has nothing like the significance it does in the movie. For example, "Then Pilate therefore took Jesus and scourged him" (John 19:1). "Then they spat in his face...beat him [and] struck him with the palms of their hands." (Matt 26:67)   Gibson does not establish Christ's significance as embodiment of God's Love. Thus it is hard to comprehend the meaning of the Crucifixion. James Caviezel who plays Christ has little stature or charisma. Sparse attention is paid to Christ's Gospel. The flashback to the Sermon on the Mount is perfunctory. Why wasn't the whole sermon depicted?   My article "Passion Highlights Jewish Christian Differences" was far too optimistic. http://www.savethemales.ca/000322.html The movie does nothing of the sort.   Judaism (or Talmudism) upholds the special relationship of Jews to God. In practice, it is an ideology of racial superiority and conquest. Christ was killed because he taught the universality of God's love and the brotherhood of all men.   Judaism emphasizes success and power in this world. There is no afterlife. Christ was killed because he taught us to renounce this world for the rewards of the Spirit both now and in the hereafter.   Why make a film about the Crucifixion if it misses these fundamental points?   SATANIC HOAX?   Cutting Edge.org says that "The Passion" portrays Illuminati symbols of the anti Christ not found in the Bible, nor in St. Anne Emmerich's mystic writings, upon which Gibson relied. http://www.cuttingedge.org/newsletters/index.html   "As the Roman soldiers are beating Jesus, the female Satan is suddenly seen gliding through the crowd opposite the Virgin Mary. Suddenly, as she emerges from behind the body of a soldier, you can see that she is carrying a very white child. Since the movie has... juxtaposed scenes of the Virgin Mary and of the female Satan, and since Satan is dressed in the same type of Virgin Mother outfit, this demonic scene must be intended to depict a Virgin Mother - Divine Child scenario.... The baby suddenly turns to look upon Jesus' brutal beating with great glee. Then, when the scene shifts back to Jesus, Satan and her baby disappears, never to be seen again."   The web site also suggests that Jesus is one-eyed throughout the movie (due to his beating) and this too is an llluminati signal. The logo of Gibson's Icon production is a single eye as is the Satanic eye in the Freemason symbol which is on the U.S Great Seal.   Cutting Edge also remarks that the very last scene of the movie, which takes place after his resurrection in the tomb, shows Christ's bare buttocks. I missed this because I was in a hurry to escape.   For those interested in the satanic angle, I also refer you to Watch Unto Prayer www.watch.pair.com   HOW I DIFFER FROM CATHOLICS The medieval mystic St. Anne Emmerich influenced Gibson's script. Apparently during the middle ages, popular piety put great emphasis on Christ's physical sacrifice. His wounds pointed to "the fulfillment of Christ's love because God humbled himself by taking on vulnerable flesh and died to free mankind from death...Christ's death was a perfect sacrifice that destroyed the power of sin, and therefore death over humanity." http://www.holycross.edu/departments/visarts/projects/kempe/devotion/wounds.html   I have no interest in religious disputation and will not engage in it. I am not a Catholic. I can appreciate that imitating Christ's self mortification is a valid religious path. I was born a Jew but I do not subscribe to Judaism either.   I do not know if Christ was God. I suspect he was a man who was totally imbued by the Divine Spirit and perfectly expressed the Divine Purpose. His message was that if he could do it, so can we. I think this is what he means when he says, "none can come to God but through me." We can experience our Divinity by obeying God.   I believe that God is Reality. We were put on earth to unveil God's Plan, both personally and collectively. However the spiritual heirs of the Pharisees are creating a new world order dedicated to Lucifer and not God. They are defining true and goodness, not in real terms, but according to their narrow totalitarian agenda.   They are turning the world upside down. Most of our assumptions about society are a lie. I am more convinced than ever that the Harold Rosenthal Interview is an accurate expose. http://www.savethemales.ca/000334.html   Gibson's "The Passion of Christ" could have reminded us of our Divine nature and responsibility. Instead it was a medieval passion play. I appreciate that many people were inspired and uplifted. I am glad and respect that. Please do not attempt to convince me I should have been inspired as well.   Recently a young man asked for advice about religion. For the benefit of a few like him, I am going to conclude with my reply:   "If I were you, I would not associate with any religious organizations. I would also shift my focus from scripture to your immediate life and your immediate relationship to God. I would try to be silent or take long walks and clear my head. Then I would listen for God speaking to you. In other words, have an immediate relationship with your Creator and focus on improving your life and behavior by bringing more harmony, peace, love and order into it.   You can still read the scriptures for inspiration but let your day be your religion, how you live, how you embody the principles in which you believe. Too much religion seems to remove people from their actual life.   I don't pretend to be a success myself in these terms but it represents my ideal." _____   Henry Makow Ph.D. is the inventor of the board game Scruples and the author of "A Long Way to go for a Date." His past articles exposing feminism and the new world order can be found at www.savethemales.ca His email address is henryatsavethemales.ca
03/08/04 at 02:21:46
rkhan

Re: The Passion
Ember
03/18/04 at 14:07:19
I've been trying to make up my mind on this movie... To see or not to see kind of thing What are the points against seeing it???

Re: The Passion
jannah
03/18/04 at 14:24:47
[wlm] I wouldn't see it unless I was in the forefront of interfaith dawah stuff and would need the movie to make some points or bring up some issues, etc. The movie is made to be traumatic and bring out people's emotions. The point is that the makers believe that Jesus (peace be upon Him) died for their sins, so they are going to show his suffering and pain in extreme detail. That's what they do, and it is very gory, bloody and painful to watch that kind of torture on another human being even if its in a movie. For example, they show him being whipped with one of those whips that have spikes in them and they show what it does to a table, leaving marks and scarring, and then they do it to him showing what it does to human skin and tissue. Then they put the nails in for crucifiction and show all that in detail etc. I mean as Muslims we don't believe Jesus died for our sins. We believe that God took Jesus up to the Heavens. Watching the goryness in detail will not make us better Muslims. We also believe prophets should not be depicted in movies and should not be exploited in such a way, so I don't know if you want to support that.

Re: The Passion
Nomi
03/18/04 at 14:28:41
[slm] [quote author=Ember link=board=kabob;num=1077199292;start=10#16 date=03/18/04 at 14:07:19]I've been trying to make up my mind on this movie... To see or not to see kind of thing What are the points against seeing it???[/quote] One thing that comes to mind is.... "Suppose i'm watching it and some lover in that movie decides to kiss her [s]nomeo[/s] romeo! So, what if i die right at that point!!. What shall i explain to Allah that i was trying to do there? Like rather i could well have been reading some book on "Ethnic Fiction", a *book* named "The Passion" etc, i mean something beneficial and non-controversial" What do you think? What will you say to Allah if you die the moment i die, the very moment both of us were watching that movie and that "sex" (lip sex?) scene shows up?
03/18/04 at 14:31:42
Nomi

Re: The Passion
jannah
03/18/04 at 14:55:10
uhh despite being called "the passion" there are no sex scenes, nor any lip locks it is rated R for its graphic violence, although most critics say it should have been nc-17 for the pervasive level of gore [wlm]

Re: The Passion
Ember
03/22/04 at 10:18:41
Ya, I was about to say that, I did not realize that there were any liplocks in the story of christ according to the bible.  ;D

Re: The Passion
Doha_03
03/23/04 at 00:08:41
slm, Okay, now after reading this thread I feel bad for watching it without knowing for sure if it was haram. If it helps though, it didn't change my views or anything and I came out with a stronger iman. Here are my views: First of all, it was VERY bloody. I thought they might just let the viewers hear the lashing and the moaning...but nope. We saw it all, lashing with spikes, chains, and sticks....watched the skin tear and blood splatter. Wow, very graphic, for those who can handle it. I'm not a good reviewer, but I'll try. If you're gonna watch the movie, you need to keep in mind that this not what we believe. If you want to watch it for learning about how Christians believe Jesus died, watch it. But remember it shows only the last 12 hours...almost nothing about what he did before or what he taught, except for a few flashback scenes. My opinion of the movie...it was awesome. Some of it was a little dragged on...like they showed all the lashing and every step he took with the cross, but I didn't mind it, I saw it with friends so a few of these are their complaints. I don't have many. Even though this is just a movie, I was in awe in the way the actor portrayed Jesus. The way he was so strong and still turned to God even when he was being beaten is so amazing. Even while they tortured him and beat him, he was saying "Please forgive them, they do not know." No matter what religion you are, you can still learn a few lessons from this movie. It annoyed me when he called God father though. For the Jews, did seem like it was all their fault. I don't mean to spoil it or anything, but the Roman Emperor guy said "His blood will not be on my hands, so you (the Jews) make the decision your selves." And he gave the Jews many choices and chances for other punishments, and every time they wanted to kill Jesus. The subtitles weren't annoying at all. It was kind of nice. For the Arabic speakers, the language is very, very similar to Arabic so it isn't too hard to understand, but it is mixed with Latin....I take Spainish too, so I understood some of that.  :) So in all, it was very good. A lot of people were crying because it is a very emotional movie. I know my sister was ballin' like a baby since the beginning. The characters were portrayed nicely, and there was a character for the devil. I didn't understand why Mary Magdelen was crying so much though. It was as if there was something between them. And I don't want to get into too much detail with the other characters...unless anyone wants me to. I recommend it. I liked it. He called himself the Son of Man. Coming out of this movie, I learned a little about how Christians believe he died. Also it makes you feel like a baby for complaining so much about life and other people. He was beaten (in the movie) and criticized by sooooo many people and he was like "Please forgive them." It makes you want to become a stronger person. So even if it is not what we believe, I still thought it was pretty good. Especially for Dawah work. I am a highschool student and we have discussions like these are the time and in fact we just talked about it today. This one boy, who is a very religous Christian, started talking about. Then I mentioned that I saw it and everyone was like "Whadda think?!" And they all looked at me. It cracks me up how they think that because I am a Muslimah I will be this weirdo with crazy extremist views. He was shocked when I told him my opinion and this one girl was shocked when I told her about Islam. They expected to hear about a violent religion, but whenever I talk about it, they seem...kind of amazed, and suprised, and even more curious. May Allah open their hearts to accept Islam as the true religion. Ameen. Wasalaam, Doha
03/29/04 at 00:07:27
Doha_03

Re: The Passion
Kathy
03/23/04 at 08:20:02
[slm] Doha, I like your style. Finding Islam's meanings in everything... even this movie. I like to do the same thing.

Re: The Passion
rkhan
03/25/04 at 08:36:53
[slm] Okay, first off I just want to say I think mashallaah that’s a v. good post. There are so many times I don’t speak my mind and speak up for what I feel is right in the real as well as cyberworld for fear of being shot down…I can truly appreciate the courage to do that …I think that’s a major plus in anyone’s personality…and in one so young…mashallaah again Pls don’t think this is a dissing/debating post…I just want to ask (as one sis to nother) 1.Did you learn anything that you [i] didn’t [/i] know from the movie? We all know that Christians believe that Jesus died a gruesome death and that his suffering will expiate their sins. Most ppl (Muslims involved in da’wah even peripherally, Christians who’ve read the Bible) know that in the Bible, Jesus calls himself and is referred to as the Son of Man many times. Apart from the shock value, what was new about the movie? Did it teach you something you didn’t already know? 2.Like someone asked earlier on in this thread, if a similar movie was made about the Prophet SAW, would u watch it? If not, why not? The Qur’aan says: [i] ‘Aaamanar rasoolu be maa unzelaa ilaihe min rabbihi wal mu’minoon Kullun aamana billaahe wa malaaikatehi wa kutubehi wa rusulehi Laa nufarriqu bayna hadim min rusulehi Wa  qaaloo same’na wa ataana, ghufraanaka rabbana wa ilaikal maseer [/i] 2:285 The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from His Lord and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allaah, His Angels, His Books and His Messengers. (They say) “We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers --- and they say “We hear and we obey. (we seek Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return of all.” Iesa ibn Maryam AS is a revered prophet of Islaam…as Muslims we don’t and cannot differentiate between him and the Prophet Muhammad SAW …or indeed any of the other prophets that Allaah swt has sent to all ppl, through time . The  media have gone so far as to feature a prototype of Iesa AS in a beer commercial and his mother Maryam AS giving birth in another recent commercial…(of pies or something …I forget). It was left to Muslims to protest against the outrage. The media isn’t v. reverential to religious figures generally…I’m wondering what would a Muslim get out of a movie made by the same media … The reason I’m bringing this up is that this isn’t the last movie that’s going to be made about Jesus and his life based on Christian belief…I think it’s v. good to see “sermons in stones and good in everything”…but as Muslims we’ve got to draw the line at going to see something that portrays our prophets physically….especially if it doesn't increase our beneficial 'ilm in any way. Wallaahu A'aalam.
03/25/04 at 09:47:20
rkhan

Re: The Passion
Doha_03
03/26/04 at 00:04:55
slm, InshaAllah I will try my best to reply to this in full. 1. I did learn from this movie. Coming in, all I knew was that Jesus was crucified (according to Christian's) and Judas betrayed him. In the movie I learned the details, like who else was involved and I learned about the other disciples and people who I never even knew. So, now I am more clear about the story. So I guess it did help. 2. That's a very good question. Unless it didn't involve any person playing Muhammed  [saw] (like The Message....or is it The Messenger), then I probably wouldn't see it. I admit that now I have just contradicted myself. I saw a movie that portrayed a Prophet, but I refuse to see a different movie portraying Muhammed...you caught me there.  :) That makes a lot of sense. I guess I thought it didn't matter because we didn't even believe that story anyways. But I guess I was wrong. JazakAllah Khair for pointing that out. So, I did come out of this movie with some gained knowledge. But if a different person came out with a similar movie about Jesus, then I probably wouldn't see it because I already saw the story and it wouldn't help me...kind of redundant. Wasalaam, Doha

Re: The Passion
bedou
03/28/04 at 16:20:18
[quote]We also believe prophets should not be depicted in movies and should not be exploited in such a way, so I don't know if you want to support that.[/quote] Word... I don't understand how mozlems are looking past this.

Re: The Passion
Doha_03
03/29/04 at 00:13:15
slm, Okay, now I feel extra bad!  :( A few months ago I watched the story of Joesph in a movie. I learned soooo much about him! But I still believe that it is wrong to portray a Prophet in a movie. From now on I am no longer going to watch "Prophet Movies"...I'll just stick to books. :) May Allah Forgive me and any all the other Muslimeen for any wrong we have done! Wasalaam, Doha

Re: The Passion
jannah
03/30/04 at 04:20:54
[wlm] whoa peeps no need to be judgemental about muslims who have seen it.  i know tons who have. they're all very good sincere people. what's done is done... if u want a fatwa on this please contact your local knowledgable/scholar/imam person.

Re: The Passion
se7en
09/16/04 at 13:14:32
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, I just came across this lecture by Imam Zaid Shakir, discussing the differences between the Christian conception of Jesus, upon him be peace, and the belief and understanding of Muslims.  He gave this lecture after someone requested clarification when the movie was popular. You can listen to it here: http://209.41.170.97:8080/ramgen/%7Ezmedia/audio/Imam%20Zaid%20Shakir%20-%20Passion%20of%20Christ.rm from the Zaytuna.Org multimedia website. salaamu alaykum, 7

Re: The Passion
Khariya
09/24/04 at 17:27:21
[slm] I know it was already mentioned by some bro's and sisters that we should not watch the movie because it depicts Prophet ISA(AS). I would just like to point out that as muslims we are instructed to follow then ten commandments, and it clearly says ": "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above,"( theres more to the commandment I'm just paraphasing. I think it would be an interesting dawah conversation, if you told a Christian that you didnt watch the movie cause it violated the ten commandments. Sort of ironic..

Re: The Passion
yumna
09/27/04 at 07:57:27
does that mean v can't watch those cartoons movies about our previous prophets like prince of egypt (moses) and prince of dreams (joseph)and stuff...????

Re: The Passion
Khariya
09/27/04 at 23:10:53
[slm] I've never seen any cartoon movies about the Prophets( peace be upoun them) but I think if it shows their bodies and faces, it is definitely wrong. Personally I think those cartoon movies like the "The Boy and the King" are wrong. Something about portraying people in hadiths just seems wrong. Allah Alim.
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