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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| There is a difference of opinion |
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| Nomi |
| 02/29/04 at 00:10:55 |
| [slm] There was an islamic university where they explored err 'new' ways to serve islaam and ended up giving nothing to their students so that they could even present a case / answer a questioner properly. A student upon graduating asked his shaykh.. "now we both know that you taught us nothing, how the hell am i gonna answer questions of ppl properly"? His shaykh said, no matter what they ask you, just tell them that "There is a difference of opinion among scholars about what ur asking"! That student appreciated the advice and went to city where Muslims weren't all that educated in deen, not even close in fact. So whenever they used to ask him something he used to respond like his shaykh told him to. Everything went fine till he decided to move to some other city where ppl were somewhat close to their deen. The same happened in the new place and ppl obviously got wary of this so called shake's shaykh's credibility. They decided to do some research for themselves and find out 'something' with which ALL 'credible' scholars of deen agree. So, they went to this so called knowledgeable dude and asked "where is the proof that there is only one God", to which he replied.... ? ? ? There is a difference of opinion among scholars on it .... :D That milk shake got 'shaken' more, his degree/certificate trashed and sidi (different) got handed over to authorities. [slm] A different muslim :) ps: On a serious note, i've heard that instead of telling ppl that there is a difference of opinion among scholars, we should tell them that scholars have given some "freedom" in this matter. The prior (due to some 20-30 odd differences) sounds like scholars 'always' differ which is confusing like hell for ppl standing on boundries of deen. ....... Just a [i]th'AAt [/i] |
| 02/29/04 at 16:06:12 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: There is a difference of opinion |
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| Mossy |
| 02/29/04 at 12:26:33 |
| Salams, Erm.. Isn't there a difference of opinion on that topic too? :) It depends on your definition of "proof" for a start, and then moves on the variance in the aqeedah of the main groups, hehe.. ws Mossy |
| Re: There is a difference of opinion |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 02/29/04 at 16:10:58 |
| [slm] [quote]ps: On a serious note, i've heard that instead of telling ppl that there is a difference of opinion among scholars, we should tell them that scholars have given some "freedom" in this matter. The prior (due to some 20-30 odd differences) sounds like scholars 'always' differ which is confusing like hell for ppl standing on boundries of deen. ....... Just a th'AAt [/quote] Allahu a'lam, but I think that would give the impression that the scholars have the right in Islam to give freedoms to the people in matters of Deen. The scholar, in fact, cannot give freedom because to a scholar only *one* opinion is correct (although he respects and acknowledges the existence of other scholarly opinions on the same subject). The freedom (perhaps "flexibility" is a better word) is definitely there though. But it is the principles of our sharee'ah that give that flexibility, which are defined by the Qur'an itself. And thus, the flexibility comes from the Shaari' (Lawgiver), which is Allah (awj), and not the scholar, who is simply interpreting, conveying, and explaining the law. Also, a common misconception is that *any* difference of opinion in the Deen is valid. This is not the case. There are issues in which there is a difference of opinion, even among the scholars, but that difference is declared invalid by the consensus of the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah, and the layman does *not* have the choice/freedom to choose any opinion he/she likes. This is often the case in issues of Aqeedah. For example, there have been scholars who professed that the Qur'an was created (like Imam Bukhari), whereas other scholars insisted that it is not created but that it is the literal Kalaam [Speech] of Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala). The belief of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah is that the first opinion is invalid, although Imam Bukhari - insha Allah - is forgiven for his mistake. The same holds true for other similar differences, like some scholars' opinion that the Hell-Fire is not eternal, etc. Wallahu a'lam. |
| Re: There is a difference of opinion |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 02/29/04 at 22:19:31 |
| [slm] Whoever first wrote that story had obviously had some dealings with the so called "islamic studies" departments at western universities, and I would not be the least bit surprised to find out that they used the department at my university for their model in this story. This town fits that discription too. I have found myself so many times sitting on my words fearful of what twisting I will see them go through and worrying that I wont be about to restrain my reaction. Is that shakey shaikh looking for a job, he could work at the university or even set up shop. Ugg! I know this hinges on backbiting but if you saw waht I am seeing here you would know that I am understating the situation. |
| Re: There is a difference of opinion |
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| Nomi |
| 03/01/04 at 22:59:19 |
| [slm] Even then my bro, how would we explain it to those who are already very much confused about this 'difference of opinion' stuff, like, to the class who is standing on boundries of deen? and this phrase kinda ticks them off and they dont even listen! Of course its not simply black or white, for example we can use the phrase 'difference of opinion' infront of those who are somewhat close to deen but for those who are very far from deen we can always use the phrase that i heard and texted? [quote] For example, there have been scholars who professed that the Qur'an was created (like Imam Bukhari), whereas other scholars insisted that it is not created but that it is the literal Kalaam [Speech] of Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala). The belief of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah is that the first opinion is invalid [/quote] And plz check with your shaykh, if Imam Bukhari believed that whether Qur'an is Kalaam or was created/creature. I think Imam Bukhari's belief was the same of Imam Ahmad bin Hambal's (may Allah bless them both) i.e. "it is not created but that it is the literal Kalaam [Speech] of Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala)". Those who believed in Qur'an not being the literal kalaam were called 'mutazila'. [slm] Asim Zafar. |
| 03/02/04 at 00:44:07 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: There is a difference of opinion |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 03/02/04 at 00:50:50 |
| [slm] Asim, I agree with you that certain responses/discourses - although correct in their content - only end up confusing people that are not very knowledgeable about their Deen. Therefore, one has to be careful of how he/she responds to someone's question and how he/she explains the Deen to someone else. This is where knowledge about how to make da'wah becomes so crucial. However, I dont think replacing a potentially confusing term with an incorrect term is the way to go. That's not the right approach either. It's unfortunate, but this ummah of ours lacks knowledge about very fundamental aspects of this Deen. Tarbiyyah is a slow process, one that requires more than 30 minute weekly halaqas and 5-minute answers to complex questions. It requires time, dedication, wisdom and commitment from the daa'ee. May Allah (swt) help us all. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah |
| Re: There is a difference of opinion |
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| Nomi |
| 03/02/04 at 15:40:07 |
| [i]March the 3rd, Desi Timezone[/i] [slm] [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=madrasa;num=1078039823;start=0#2 date=02/29/04 at 16:10:58] Allahu a'lam, but I think that would give the impression that the scholars have the right in Islam to give freedoms to the people in matters of Deen.[/quote] [quote] However, I dont think replacing a potentially confusing term with an incorrect term is the way to go. That's not the right approach either. [/quote] Let me put it this way... we'll stick to the word 'freedom' but rephrase it like "You have [i]freedom[/i] to choose what to follow because scholars (more than one scholars, each among whom, is entitled to his own fatwa) suggest more than one ways to do it" What says you? And come on now Abu_Hamza, it shouldn't be so difficult to understand for someone who doesn't believe in following one single mad'hab only! [slm] Asim Zafar. ps: I follow one mad'had though (Hanfi) and i dont do it blindly, t'rust me :). IMs are welcome for knowing my views as mad'habs is a banned topic. |
| Re: There is a difference of opinion |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 03/02/04 at 20:23:58 |
| [slm] Br. Nomi, that's better than the way you had put it previously :) But ... I'm afraid that is not an entirely correct statement either :( (I still don't understand what you're trying to get at btw). The reason it's not correct is because we do not really have the freedom to choose whatever we like! First, we must choose from among the various *valid* scholarly opinions that exist. Often times, there are 10 opinions out there, 7 of which are valid scholarly opinions, and the rest are invalid opinions often held by mdoernistic non-scholars. Second, what do we base our choice upon? Are we free to choose the one we *like*, because it goes along with our own biased perception about things? Or do we make a sincere effort to choose the one which adheres most to the Qur'an and Sunnah, even if it goes against our own desires? Certainly, in this sense, we do not have the total freedom to choose whatever we want. Wallahu a'lam. |
| 03/02/04 at 20:25:19 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: There is a difference of opinion |
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| Nomi |
| 03/03/04 at 01:11:38 |
| [slm] Abu_Hamza, you are taking it where i never wanted to go. This post was originally in bebzi stand and i was not really naseehaing rather just sharing! Anyhow, we can discuss it more if you want to :) Let me repeat, i'm only replying to your post, this is not where i wanted to take it, see my first post for my proof. I'll get back to the 'original' point in a mo [quote] First, we must choose from among the various *valid* scholarly opinions that exist. Often times, [color=Yellow]there are 10 opinions out there, 7 of which are valid scholarly opinions,[/color] and the rest are invalid opinions often held by mdoernistic non-scholars. Second, what do we base our choice upon? Are we free to choose the one we *like*, because it goes along with our own biased perception about things? Or do we make a sincere effort to choose the one [color=Yellow]which adheres most to the Qur'an and Sunnah[/color] [/quote] On second thought.... i wont comment on this bit right now, because 1) I do have my 'guitar case' but i dont feel like playing, 2) <what was #2 ?!> :P Let me just say that, even sincere efforts of two different persons can result in completely different results e.g. Battle between Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Ayesha (radiAllahu Anhum) and your comments are asking too much from someone who is standing on boundry of deen (asking the part in yellow from him!! .. this is the class (standing on boundries of deen) that i tallked about in my 'original' post!) And plzzzzzzz... no one start talking about that battle now, if they do, i request mods in advance to shift that into some other thread! Lets get back to the main point now. --Abu_Hamza [quote] Br. Nomi, that's better than the way you had put it previously :) [/quote] -- First i put it like [quote] i've heard that instead of telling ppl that there is a difference of opinion among scholars, we should tell them that scholars have given some "freedom" in this matter. [/quote] -- Then like [quote] "You have freedom to choose what to follow because scholars (more than one scholars, each among whom, is entitled to his own fatwa) suggest more than one ways to do it" [/quote] :) akhi, i dunno... i kinda still think that my first comment was safer i.e. its safer when we tell them that 'scholars' (more than one scholars, each among whom, is entitled to his own fatwa) have given them freedom rather than saying that "u are free to choose" Allahu Alim, and I think now its time that someone else settle it between us, without shooting anyone down :) And you know what Abu_Hamza? Meanwhile we were arguing over it and having a difference of opinion, the one standing on boundry of deen got ticked off as there is yet another difference of opinion! (which *we* know is a blessing but go tell our weakest of brethren that!) What if we had just made it simple for him/her 'for now' by saying that you actually get 'freedom' from scholars, just to make that person get somewhat closer and get his heart softened. Like the world wont come to an end after this day so we can 'always' explain these theories to him when his faith is somewhat stronger! What says you? [slm] Asim Zafar. ps: [i]Wednesday, March the 3rd, Desi Timezone[/i] |
| 03/03/04 at 01:16:39 |
| Nomi |
| Re: There is a difference of opinion |
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| anon |
| 03/03/04 at 13:58:23 |
| The version I heard was: A knowledgeable person tried his entire life to make a scholar out of his son, but his son was completely inept at it. So when he was dying he gave his son advice that if wants to qualify as a scholar from a madrassa, he should just say "there is a difference of opinion" in reply to all questions. Keeping the advice in mind his son goes to some faraway madrassa where people don't know him. When it is time for an evaluation a group of scholars ask him questions and to each question he says "there is a difference of opinion." The scholars are very impressed thinking that he knows all the different views on each issue. So on a more friendly note they ask him "who is your father?" and he replies: There is a difference of opinion on the issue. |
| 03/03/04 at 13:59:01 |
| anon |
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