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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Dawah to sisters ? |
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| Nomi |
| 03/01/04 at 03:25:37 |
| [slm] I would like brothers (and sisters if they want to) to express there thoughts about the text below. -- My view[tt] [size=2] [color=Blue] I believe that the reason we 'religious' muslims need to mix while living in non-muslims societies is the lack of a support system. There aren't many muslims around and hence to save our not so religious sisters from fitna, religious brothers can hook-up with them keeping deen in mind. Same is true for sisters, like if at uni there is some dude who is at the risk of being annihilated by the satanic civilization then obviously the 'religious' sister can be a litle friendly with him with dawah/deen as "the" neeyah behind all this. But to be able to do it without one (religious one) getting corrupted instead, one should make sure that his/her connection with ulema and masjid is even more stronger than the 'regular' religious class (Can not emphasize on this bit more). What i dont like is that when ppl try to sell it to us that this area of islaam is getting redefined to its original self among practicing Muslims living in non-muslim lands. I mean this can not be applied as is to Muslim countries where "we" the "ummah" does have a support system. Sisters have "many" practicing sisters around them to provide this support. Same is true for brothers, and there is no need whatsoever for a brother chit chatting with sisters which would prolly be for 'getting' some err support (enjoyment) rather than providing support for deen. Of course nothing is simply black and white (both in muslim and non muslim countries) as even where i live there is a class who i call the untouchables. Untouchables in a sense that it "seems" there is no dawah facility available to them as they just have cut themselves off of any such thing. Hence i, unlike sister amkamb, often think of ways to 'touch' them somehow. Even if its some sister, even if its through the internet. It might not be true for everyone but thats just my theory in short. [/color] [/size] [/tt] comments? |
| 03/01/04 at 03:46:21 |
| Nomi |
| Re: Dawah to sisters ? |
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| superFOB |
| 03/01/04 at 04:54:31 |
| [slm] Are you asking: "Is it possible to have a platonic friend of the opposite sex, even for the sacrosanct purpose of dawah, especially when one is young and unmarried?" |
| Re: Dawah to sisters ? |
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| veiled |
| 03/03/04 at 00:21:21 |
| Doing da'wah for the sake of Allah and to promote His Deen is indeed a wonderful job and may Allah help you in it.Insha'Allah.However when it comes to propogating Deen to non mahrams.......we all must be very careful.The shytan is in us like blood.May Allah keep all of us safe.Ameen. This question/answer at Islam-qa might help.Insha'Allah. I had a female class-mate when I was studying in middle school, but praise be to Allaah I adhered to the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) which say that one should not be alone with a non-mahram woman. My question is: I know that she has some good characteristics, and I want to offer her advice and guide her, but the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade being alone with a non-mahram woman, and Allaah forbids looking at a non-mahram woman. So how can I call her (da’wah)?. Answer : Praise be to Allaah. As you mention, it is haraam to be alone with a non-mahram woman and it is haraam to look at her. If you want to offer her advice, then you can speak to her when she is concealing herself from you, and without being alone with her. You could also give her some useful books and tapes that will help her to learn the rulings of her religion, or write the advice to her, or use other useful means that will not lead to fitnah and will achieve the desired goal. And Allaah is the Source of strength. Al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 14/70. (www.islam-qa.com) |
| Re: Dawah to sisters ? |
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| Mossy |
| 03/03/04 at 13:48:35 |
| Salams, I have no problems having platonic friends of the opposite sex. Even non-muslims. Then again I'm not a big fan of segregation, but rather of correct adab. Having said that, I'm never alone physically with them nor look at them directly. But hey, that's just me.. ws Mossy |
| Re: Dawah to sisters ? |
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| jannah |
| 03/03/04 at 18:04:54 |
| [wlm] mossy who are you and how did you get here?? lol your views are so normal and moderate... please stick around! usually people are overwhelmed with all the people, personalities, problems, opinions and differences and the end up just getting alienated from the board :( |
| Re: Dawah to sisters ? |
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| superFOB |
| 03/04/04 at 05:50:08 |
| [slm] [quote author=jannah link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#4 date=03/03/04 at 18:04:54]mossy who are you and how did you get here??[/quote] My sentiments exactly! j/k [quote author=jannah link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#4 date=03/03/04 at 18:04:54]lol your views are so normal and moderate... [/quote] well, one woman's moderate can be another man's extremist [quote author=jannah link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#4 date=03/03/04 at 18:04:54]all the people, personalities, problems, opinions and differences[/quote] which is a good thing, imho [quote author=Mossy link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#3 date=03/03/04 at 13:48:35]I have no problems having platonic friends of the opposite sex. Even non-muslims. Then again I'm not a big fan of segregation, but rather of correct adab. Having said that, I'm never alone physically with them nor look at them directly. But hey, that's just me.[/quote] lol, is this an attempt to become a chick magnet, lol, j/k. Pls forgive me, I can't believe I wrote that, but you had that coming. On a more serious note, since nomi has abondoned this thread, let me put some "life" into it. First let me emphasise that my question was general in nature, and not directed to someone's personal worldview. I want to listen to some concrete arguments here, so please let me have it. Now we turn to the meat of the problem. Firstly, your answer didn't imply what do you consider as segregation. What you might consider free-mixing might be segregation in another time, place, or context. So I am assuming that you are referring to the way understood and explained by the majority of scholarly opinion. Secondly, I wonder, is it possible to engage someone in an interesting conversation and not look at them? The face expressions, the eyes, the gestures - the body language - convey so much information that a meaningful dialogue seems like an anamoly in their absence. I am skeptical that two young people can converse and have the adab of shuyookh at the same time. Exceptions might be there, but there is some things hardwired in the male brain (can't speak of the female counterpart) which makes this claim a mite improbable. Its for no reason that women are a cause of fitna for men and not vice versa. Yes, us males are made weak too, it is time to accept it. Now there is a lot of scholarly support (I am sure backed up by solid evidence) for segregation but the counter-evidence is scant, to put it mildly. I have yet to hear any solid argument save some piece written in impeccable english yet carrying little weight. Unless and until the people of amr, the scholars, come to an agreement for de-segregation, at least a vast majority among them, the salafis, the sufis, the azharis, the deobandis, the ghair muqallids, anyone who argues against segregation at this time is on thin ground indeed. Last thing I noticed was that you gave an opinion based on your personal experiences and capabilities. You see, laws - religious or otherwise - are not made for individuals, they are made for the benefit of the general public, the least common denominator. They have to be. You can not break a traffic light because its the dead of night, visibility is 10 miles, and you don't see any cars coming. Although laws are inefficient, you have to follow the law, unless you want to create chaos and anarchy. It is all what is possible with the limited knowledge of the human race. Laws can not be tailored to suit individuals. To do justice can only be the job of the Almighty, don't you think. Have I come out too biased? Well, consider me as an impartial observer, who weighs the facts, the evidences, the cold realities, and makes a statement. Do you have any counter-weights? I hope I made sense, despite my language skills. - just your average lay"person" PS: I hope this thread doesn't turns out like the last one, yeah that one. |
| 03/04/04 at 06:00:04 |
| superFOB |
| Re: Dawah to sisters ? |
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| Mossy |
| 03/04/04 at 08:15:03 |
| Salams, Thanks for the comments Jannah, I forgot to post an intro, will rectify now. Oops. [quote]Its for no reason that women are a cause of fitna for men and not vice versa.[/quote] ;D Tell me.. Does say anywhere that men aren't a fitna for women? Which of the ulema take this to be a generalised and explicit statement of inherent and subconcious fitnahrificness? I realise I should have expounded upon the reasons behind my opinion and clarified certain aspects, but term finishes next week and so I only have time to give cursory replies :) I know what laws are based on and what they delineate, as well as how/where they originate. Insh'Allah I'll return to this at length after next weekend - I owe AbuKhaled a nice long reply in the hijab is fard thread too, insh'Allah I will be able to do both topics justice. For the record, it is perfectly possible to converse in this manner - being already taken makes it even easier (you just imagne her with a baseball bat). I try to be as straightforward as possible - I converse with members of the opposite sex in public, just as I do online etc :) For now.. Back to Field Theory :( ws, Mossy |
| 03/04/04 at 08:15:54 |
| Mossy |
| Re: Dawah to sisters ? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 03/04/04 at 08:27:08 |
| [slm] Has anyone besides me noticed that we are all having these conversations from behind screens? Is it possible that another name could have been given to the flat part of our monitors? Well, thats my semi-non-sequiter of the day, Sa laam, |
| Re: Dawah to sisters ? |
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| jannah |
| 03/04/04 at 18:43:34 |
| [wlm] my point is that moderate people are turned off by all us opinionated, aggressive people on here and why do u have to say that superfob?? just cause someone thinks that it's possible to have normal friendships and interaction among brothers and sisters, and i know for a fact it is, u don't have to accuse them of trying to "attract chicks" jeez the thing about segregation is what does it mean... to some it means women don't leave their homes except for 3 things blah blah.. refer to that thread to others it means women should have NO contact with anyone of the opposite sex unless they are her mahram and there's the other extreme too, where there are no limits and you can do whatever you want.. islam is a middle way, a moderate way... it sets some limits but is not extreme. it enjoins hijab for a reason... why enjoin that if segregation is the norm.. anyway i really like qaradawi's writings on this.. they are really enlightening so check em out.. |
| Re: Dawah to sisters ? |
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| Nomi |
| 03/05/04 at 00:47:28 |
| [slm] -- SuperGeekOB [quote] On a more serious note, since nomi has abondoned this thread [/quote] What made you say that? Actually i was unhappy about you chickening out of most of the threads where some topic related to deen was being discussed ;D Thats why i held on to my horses as i wanted you to defend your first reply. I hope you wont chicken out this time on ;) As for you bro mossy, remember i gave you a touch on your blog 2 weeks back? Thats because i liked that comment of yours at your blog about keeping you chin warm with your beard ;D So that means i like you too but just bcoz i like you doesn't mean that both of us or anyone for that matter will continue to agree with each other on all accounts, well thats so natural, isn't it? aye then, sit tight and 'enjoy' the occasional difference of opinion [tt](oops did i say dif. ov opi. .. np.. wid time inshaAllah)[/tt] and 95% of harmony. [slm] Asim Zafar. |
| Re: Dawah to sisters ? |
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| superFOB |
| 03/05/04 at 10:28:11 |
| [slm] [quote author=Mossy link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#6 date=03/04/04 at 08:15:03]Tell me.. Does say anywhere that men aren't a fitna for women? Which of the ulema take this to be a generalised and explicit statement of inherent and subconcious fitnahrificness?[/quote] That fitnah thing is how it has been understood for centuries and only now people have started challenging it. [quote author=Mossy link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#6 date=03/04/04 at 08:15:03]but term finishes next week and so I only have time to give cursory replies :) [/quote] Take your time my friend :) [quote author=Mossy link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#6 date=03/04/04 at 08:15:03]I owe AbuKhaled a nice long reply in the hijab is fard thread too, [/quote] Man, that dude abukhaled makes me feel so inadequate sometimes. Its nice that you talk of me in the same breath but it really does not do justice to him. [quote author=Mossy link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#6 date=03/04/04 at 08:15:03]For the record, it is perfectly possible to converse in this manner - being already taken makes it even easier (you just imagne her with a baseball bat). I try to be as straightforward as possible - I converse with members of the opposite sex in public, just as I do online etc :)[/quote] <emphasis mine>Again dear brother, you are falling in the same trap. No intention of nitpicking though. Just want to keep you on your toes. [quote author=jannah link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#8 date=03/04/04 at 18:43:34]my point is that moderate people are turned off by all us opinionated, aggressive people on here[/quote] Surely a generous statement, I agree, many among us are opinionated and assertive, in their own ways. [quote author=jannah link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#8 date=03/04/04 at 18:43:34]and why do u have to say that superfob?? [/quote] Aww, it was merely a joke, admittedly a bit racy though. It was just harmless brotherly banter. But take heart, Mossy is a moderator on islamica! I bet he took that in stride :) [quote author=jannah link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#8 date=03/04/04 at 18:43:34]the thing about segregation is what does it mean... to some it means women don't leave their homes except for 3 things blah blah.. refer to that thread to others it means women should have NO contact with anyone of the opposite sex unless they are her mahram and there's the other extreme too, where there are no limits and you can do whatever you want.. islam is a middle way, a moderate way... it sets some limits but is not extreme. it enjoins hijab for a reason... why enjoin that if segregation is the norm..[/quote] I see your point and I concur. But my question was pretty specific, and I didn't find my answer. [quote author=jannah link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#8 date=03/04/04 at 18:43:34]anyway i really like qaradawi's writings on this.. they are really enlightening so check em out..[/quote] Lets just say I find some of the learned shaikh's views a bit disagreeable. It would be unwise to go through his work with my heart closed to his thoughts, the barakah would just not be there. What I am interested in is how you understand this particular issue and what is your take on it. [quote author=Nomi link=board=bro;num=1078129537;start=0#9 date=03/05/04 at 00:47:28]Actually i was unhappy about you chickening out of most of the threads where some topic related to deen was being discussed ;D[/quote] Take it from me brother, argumentative debates never pay - but it ALWAYS pays to keep your trap shut most of the time ;) Besides, did I mention that I am yet another nobody whose opinion generally lacks substance and conviction? |
| 03/05/04 at 10:34:01 |
| superFOB |
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