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| backbiting and slander: what is in the fine print? |
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| superFOB |
| 03/07/04 at 20:03:07 |
| [slm] backbiting and slander: what is in the fine print? Alhamdulillah, we all know how abhorent backbiting is in islam and why can't we slander chaste women. But what about non muslims? Is it permissible to backbite non muslims? How about slander? What is the opinion of the scholars of islam on this? |
| 03/07/04 at 20:08:43 |
| superFOB |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| Mossy |
| 03/07/04 at 21:30:12 |
| Salams, Slander (buhtan) is impermissable for a Muslim as it is lying plain and simple - the Prophet (pbuh) also indicated it is not in Muslim character to slander anyone (Tirmidhi?). Imam al-Ghazali amongst a few others stated it is impermissable to slander or backbite (I assume you're referring to gheebah) a non-muslim unless he is one at war with the muslims. Other scholars have differentiated between harbi and dhimmi thus, as well as ahlul kitab. Backbiting is defined as mentioning something about your brother which he would dislike - non-muslims come under the inclusion of the extended brotherhood of man. The extent of this connection depends on which path you choose to follow - some hate the sinner, others concentrate on the sin. Thus for example, Hanafis usually include the non-believer amongst those you may not harm via gheebah (and certainly not by buhtan) and hold this impermissable, whereas those of the salafi minhaj deem it permissable in some cases due to their world view. If nobody else gets you specific quotes by next week, I'll dig some up as I'll have time then insh'Allah. ws Mossy |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| rkhan |
| 03/07/04 at 23:46:52 |
| [slm] Bro there's this e-book in pdf format on "dangers of the tongue" which is v.comprehensive...it has subsections which deal with diff issues with references from the Qur'an and ahadith. May Allaah reward the writer. It's at www.ymofmd.com.books. Check it out inshallah. |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| superFOB |
| 03/08/04 at 03:04:14 |
| [slm] Sister, the link is dead, but I found it at another website. The only place I found where they dealt with non muslims was: [color=black]The prohibition of defaming one's kin. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: "Two types of people from among men have disbelief (kufr) in them, the defamer of his kin (close family relatives), and the woman who wails and lament over the dead." [Muslim][/color] Its a qss publication and I am surprised that they didn't bother to put any material concerning the non muslims! But the hadith is good enough for now. Anyways, it seems like mossy hit the nail on the head :) |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| timbuktu |
| 03/08/04 at 04:30:43 |
| [slm] the link is actually: http://www.ymsite.com/books.html it is always a good idea to look at the link critically and one can usually find a variation that works :) |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 03/08/04 at 12:21:48 |
| [slm] For 85 pages it is a surprisingly fast read and well constructed. Pages 46-48 were of particular interst to me, and I think that tends to be why this question is raised, that is, how can we deal with an ongoing immediate wrong without getting acused of backbiting and slander. I also like that the book went into other tongue based wrongdoing. I think for any of us who engage in tongue-foo, it is always a good thing to also engagein research reasearch research so that we do good and not harm. |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| Emerald |
| 03/08/04 at 14:32:57 |
| superFOB, backbiting is backbiting. Besides why would you get your tongue used to saying things that are not Muslim-like? No matter who we're talking about and to whom we always want to give the impression of what a true Muslim is like and try to imitate the Rasul (pbuh) as much as we can. So like our Mama's always taught us, if you've got nothing good to say, don't say anyhting at all. And like my Dad used to tell me, talking is worth silver but silence is worth gold. (Sounds better in Arabic :)) Emerald |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| Tesseract |
| 03/08/04 at 17:21:59 |
| Assalamu 'alaikum, [quote]So like our Mama's always taught us, if you've got nothing good to say, don't say anyhting at all.[/quote] That's actually a Hadeeth of Rasool Allah (Saw) :). Wassalam. |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/08/04 at 19:56:21 |
| [slm] Backbiting is a major sin, but there are rare circumstances where it maybe permitted. Sheikh Munajjid discussed the issue of backbiting here: Praise be to Allaah. Backbiting (gheebah) is a bad characteristic which Allaah and His Messenger have forbidden. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would hate it (so hate backbiting). And fear Allaah. Verily, Allaah is the One Who forgives and accepts repentance, Most Merciful.” [al-Hujuraat 49:12] It was reported from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Muslim is the brother of another Muslim; he does not betray him, lie to him or forsake him. The whole of the Muslim is sacred to his fellow Muslim – his honour, his wealth and his blood. Taqwa (piety) is here. It is sufficient evil for a man to despise his brother.” (Narrated by Muslim, no. 4650; al-Tirmidhi, no. 1850). It was reported that Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When I was taken up into the heavens (the Mi’raaj), I passed by some people who had nails of copper with which they were scratching their faces and chests. I said, ‘Who are these people, O Jibreel?’ He said, ‘These are the ones who used to eat the flesh of the people and slander their honour.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 6095; Abu Dawood, no. 4253). With regard to the meaning of gheebah (backbiting), it was reported from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do you know what gheebah is?” They said: Allaah and His Messenger know best. He said, “(It is) when you mention something about your brother that he does not like.” It was said, What do you think if what I say about my brother is true? He said, “If it is true then you are backbiting against him and if it is not true then you are slandering him.” (Narrated by Muslim, no. 4690; al-Tirmidhi, no.1857). Gheebah means mentioning something about your brother in his absence and saying something that he does not like to have said about him, with the intention of mocking him or making fun of him. But if you say something about him in his absence to someone who can offer him advice so that he will advise him, or you are asking for help from someone who you hope will have an influence on him so that he will stop doing some evil action or sin that he has fallen into, and thus bring him back to the straight path – this is not gheebah. For example, if a wife talks to her husband or her son about another of her sons so that he can advise him, this is not gheebah. Similarly, if you speak about your brother or someone else to his guardian or to someone who is able to stop him from doing wrong – with the intention of voicing a grievance and asking for help, or because he has taken something from you unlawfully and you want to demand your rights from the guardian of the one who took what is rightfully yours, such as when a man complains about his brother to his father if he has mistreated him or taken something that belongs to him, in order to have his rights restored to him, or complaining to a ruler or judge of unfair treatment – this is not gheebah. Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his commentary on Saheeh Muslim (Sharh Saheeh Muslim): “But gheebah (speaking about a person in his absence) is permissible if it is for some legitimate (shar’i) purpose, which includes six reasons: The first is complaining about unjust treatment: it is permissible for a person who has been mistreated to complain to the ruler or judge, or other people who have the authority or power to deal with the person who has mistreated him. He can say, So and so mistreated me, or, he did such and such to me. The second is seeking help to change some evil action, and bring a sinner back to the right path: so he may say to the person who he hopes can help: So and so is doing such and such, so try to stop him, and so on. The third is seeking a religious ruling or fatwa: whereby a person may say to the Mufti: So and so – or my father, or my brother, or my husband – has treated me unjustly by doing such and such; does he have the right to do that? How can I deal with this and protect myself from his mistreatment? etc. This is permissible in cases of need. It is preferable to say in the case of a man or a husband or a father or a son that someone did such and such [i.e., describe it indirectly], but naming names is permissible, because of the hadeeth of Hind who said (to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): Abu Sufyaan is a stingy man. The fourth is warning the Muslims against some evil: this may take various forms, such as mentioning the faults of narrators, witnesses and authors. This is permissible by scholarly consensus. Indeed, it is obligatory, in order to protect the sharee’ah. It also includes describing faults when one is consulted [about a person, for a serious reason such as business, marriage, etc.], and speaking up if one sees someone buying faulty goods or a slave who steals or commits zinaa or drinks wine etc. – he should mention that to the would-be purchaser if he does not know about it. This is by way of sincere advice, not to cause harm or offence or corruption. Also, if you see a seeker of knowledge frequently visiting a person who is immoral or who follows innovations, and taking knowledge from him, and you fear that he may be harmed, you must advise him by explaining the situation to him, with the aim of offering sincere advice. If you see a person in a position of authority which he cannot discharge properly because he is not qualified for it or because he is corrupt, you should tell whoever has authority over him and explain what he is really like so that he will not be deceived by him and so that he will discipline him – this is not gheebah, and it is obligatory to put things right. The fifth is if a person is openly committing immoral deeds or following bid’ah: such as drinking wine, confiscating people’s property unlawfully, collecting extortionate taxes, being in charge of illegal activities etc. It is permissible to speak of what he is doing openly, but it is not permissible to speak of other things except for another reason. The sixth is for the purposes of identification: if a person is known by a nickname such as al-A’mash (rheumy-eyed), al-A’raj (lame), al-Azraq (blue), al-Qaseer (short), al-A’maa (blind), al-Aqta’ (missing a limb) etc., this is permissible for purposes of identification, but it is haraam to use such names for the purpose of belittling a person, and if it is possible to identify them by using other words, this is better. And Allaah knows best.” But if there is no useful purpose to be served by speaking about a person, or if the aim is to make fun of him or expose him, this is gheebah and is not permitted. And Allaah knows best. Islam Q&A Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com) |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| bhaloo |
| 03/08/04 at 20:09:29 |
| [slm] [quote author=superFOB link=board=madrasa;num=1078707907;start=0#0 date=03/07/04 at 20:03:07] Is it permissible to backbite non muslims? [/quote] Sheikh Munajjid was asked the following question: Question : Please inform us if the gheebah (backbiting) is the same for non-believers as it is for Muslims. Answer : Praise be to Allaah. Firstly, it is not a Muslim characteristic to speak rudely. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Muslim does not slander, curse, speak obscenely or speak rudely.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, who said, this is a ghareeb hasan hadeeth; it was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani). Whoever does a thing a lot, it will become his habit, so the Muslim should keep away from all the ways that lead to evil, whether minor or major. Whoever drives his sheep near the enclosure of the king is bound to cross the line. Secondly, if your question is referring to backbiting about a kaafir by mentioning his physical defects, such as his having a long nose or a big mouth, etc., then do not do this, because this is making fun of the creation of Allaah. If it means talking about his bad characteristics which he flaunts openly, such as zina and immorality, or drinking alcohol, and warning against him, there is nothing wrong with that. There follow some of the comments of the scholars on this topic: Zakariya al-Ansaari said: “Backbiting about a kaafir is haraam if he is a dhimmi [a non-Muslim living under Islamic rule], because that puts them off from accepting the jizyah and it is going against the treaty of dhimmah (agreement between non-Muslim subjects and the Islamic state) and the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). ‘Whoever makes a snide comment to a dhimmi has earned Hell.’ (Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh). It is permissible (to backbite about a kaafir) if he is a harbi (one who is at war with the Muslims), because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to command Hassaan to lampoon the mushrikeen.” (Asna al-Mutaalib ma’a Haashiyatihi, vol. 3, p. 116) Ahmad ibn Hajar al-Haythami said in al-Zawaajir ‘an Iqtiraaf al-Kabaa’ir (vol. 2, p. 27): “Al-Ghazaali was asked about backbiting about a kaafir. He said: with regard to a Muslim, it is forbidden for three reasons: causing offence; criticizing the creation of Allaah, for Allaah is the Creator of the deeds of His slaves; and wasting time in something that is of no benefit. The first is haraam, the second is makrooh, and the third is not the best thing that one can do. With regard to the dhimmi, he is like the Muslim as far as not harming him is concerned, because the Lawgiver protects his honour, blood and property. It was said in al-Khaadim, the first view is correct. Ibn Hibbaan narrated in his Saheeh that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘Whoever makes a snide comment to a Jew or a Christian deserves Hell.’ The meaning of making a snide comment is to make someone hear something that will cause offence to him. There is no stronger evidence than this, i.e., it is haraam. Al-Ghazaali said: with regard to the harbi, the former is not haraam, and the second and third are makrooh. With regard to one who commits bid’ah (innovation), if he is becomes a kaafir thereby, then he is like a harbi, otherwise he is like a Muslim, but speaking of him with regard to his bid’ah is not makrooh. Ibn al-Mundhir said, concerning the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “It is your mentioning about your brother that which he dislikes,” – this indicates that in the case of one who is not your brother, such as a Jew or a Christian or a follower of any other religion, or one whose bid’ah has put him beyond the pale of Islam, there is no backbiting in his case.” Islam Q&A Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com) |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| sal |
| 03/09/04 at 15:30:05 |
| Backbiting is always forbidden for muslems and non muslems besides why do we have to think offending. hurting, attacking. the nonmuslem with any kind of way could be permissible ? Any kind of sin you perform by offending a muslem is the same if you do that to a non muslem.and may be more since this gives bad impression about ISLAM and this is another responsibilty and sin. |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| superFOB |
| 03/10/04 at 08:13:05 |
| [slm] jak for the replys. So its official, we CAN NOT backbite and slander non muslims. All the permissible cases, as enumerated above, are not to be taken lightly. btw, isn't there something other then a dhimmi and a harbi? |
| Re: backbiting and slander: what is in the fine pr |
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| se7en |
| 03/11/04 at 16:45:59 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, [quote author=superFOB link=board=madrasa;num=1078707907;start=10#11 date=03/10/04 at 08:13:05]btw, isn't there something other then a dhimmi and a harbi?[/quote] it depends.. traditional understanding is that the world is divided into two domains, that of daar ul-islam and daar-ul harb.. but there are many scholars who advance a different framework that includes other domains as well, such as the idea of a daar as-sulh or daar al-ahd [lit. "house of treaty or covenant", a region not under Muslim control but on good terms and at peace with Muslims], daar ash-shahada [lit. "house of witness", in which Muslims are free to believe, practice and educate others about their faith], and others. Dr. Tariq Ramadan talks about this idea in many of his works. I actually thought it was a new idea, but when I enquired about it with Shaykh Mokhtar he said that it is an idea that has been present in scholarly literature for quite some time. w'Allahu a'lam wasalaamu alaykum |
| 03/11/04 at 17:20:34 |
| se7en |
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