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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Need help Women president of MSA |
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| Khariya |
| 03/12/04 at 00:09:19 |
| [slm] I need some help in convincing some brothers that a Muslim women is allowed to be president of the MSA. The bro's cite the hadith where the Prophet [saw] says that a country whose has a women as their leader will never succeed or something along these lines. My arguement is that a MSA president is different than a president of a country, and I told the bro's that Umar RA appointed a women to be an administrater of something( I need more info on this please) during his rule. Also I have heard that there were women who were judges etc. I also heard that Imam Malik's original position was that women could hold leadership postions but that his madhab no longer allows it. Any information would be greatly appreciated and please provide me with reference to your hadiths so I can show it to the brothers at my MSA. I need this info really fast,. Skhuran |
| 03/12/04 at 16:58:12 |
| Khariya |
| Re: Need help Women president of MSA |
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| Kathy |
| 03/12/04 at 08:28:49 |
| [slm] This was posted somewhere on this board, but I could not find it, here is a copy paste. Read all the way through and you will find the answer toword the end: Title of Fatwa Women Holding Public Positions Date of Fatwa 20/ May/ 2002 Question of Fatwa As-Salamu `Alaykum. I was recently the president of the Muslim Student Association (MSA) at our local university. My term just ended last week because of our new elections. When I was president, our MSA brothers all dropped out. Though they never mentioned anything to me directly, I received repeated hints that they dropped out because I am a sister and not a brother. My proof that this was the main reason for the brothers leaving the MSA came when the new president emailed me that he did not want me to think that was why he ran for election and when the sheik we invited to our picnic out of the blue mentioned that in Islam a woman can be in a public position. Basically, I wish to inform my brothers that they were wrong. I would appreciate if you could email me anything in the Qur'an or Hadith that would support or deny a women's right to be an active leader in the community. I know that as long as she is not the Khaleefah she can hold a position, so please email me the supporting evidence. Jazakum Allah Khayran. Name of Mufti Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi Content of Reply Wa `Alaykumu As-Salamu wa Rahmatu Allah wa Barakatuh In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger. Sister in Islam, we really appreciate your efforts in pursuit of knowledge, which is an Islamic obligation upon all Muslims, males and females. As regards your question, we’’d cite the following Fatwa issued by the well-known Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, says: "Woman's invaluable work, in fact, is to look after her children and husband. As for employment, which is meant for earning a living, she is permitted to do it provided that the following conditions are met: First, it should be legal. The Muslim woman is not permitted to work in a place where she will be in privacy with non-Mahram (marriageable) man, or in clubs where she is supposed to offer alcohol to people. Second, she should abide by the Islamic morals in dress, talk, etc. Third, woman's employment should not be at the expense of her immediate work, namely caring about her children and husband. Accordingly, the Muslim woman is permitted to go to work as long as she is in need of money and there is no person responsible for her maintenance, and the above conditions are met. , In this context, we should recall the story of the daughters of Prophet Shu`ayb, peace and blessings be upon, about whom the Glorious Qur'an says, "And when he (Prophet Musa) came unto the water of Midian he found there a whole tribe of men, watering. And, he found apart from them two women keeping, back (their flocks). He said: What aileth you? The two said: We cannot give (our flocks) to drink till the shepherds return from the water; and our father is a very old man." (Al-Qasas: 23) Apparently, Prophet Shu`ayb's daughters went out to give water to their flocks because their father was an old man and they had no brothers. Admittedly, the Muslim society is in need of working women in certain fields such as education and medicine in order to educate and treat women. As for the woman's work in judiciary, Abu Haneefah permits her to be a judge in cases that her witness is accepted in, i.e., in cases other the criminal ones. Ibn Hazm and At-Tabaree, however, are of the opinion that the woman can be a judge in all cases. Here, we should keep in mind that the permissibility of appointing woman as a judge does not necessitate it. Rather, the public interest of the Muslim society and the welfare the woman herself and the family should be the main criterion in deciding whether it is necessary to appoint a woman in such serious position or not. A woman is not allowed to be a governor, a ruler, or a Caliph of a Muslim state because often she cannot bear the burdens of that tremendous job. We say "often" to refer to the fact that there may be some women who are more powerful and forbearing than some men. Yet, this is unusual and the Islamic rulings, therefore, cannot be founded upon the exception. There is no wrong, then, if a woman is appointed as head of an institution, or Member of Parliament as long as it is within the interests of the Muslim society." Conclusion: 1- According to Sheikh Al-Qaradawi's Fatwa, you are blameless for nominating yourself as a candidate in the elections of MSA presidency, for it is not a caliphate office. 2- It was the duty of those brothers who dropped out of the Association to give you sincere advice and to explain why they did so. 3- Muslim associations in the West shoulder a great responsibility, namely caring about the welfare of Islam and Muslims, and therefore Muslims should support them irrespective of the gender of their leaders. 4- Muslims now are in need of understanding what Muslim scholars call as Fiqh Al-Awlawiyyat (Discernment of Priorities), which requires Muslims to concern themselves with the fundamental issues and disregard trivialities. Thus, it was the duty of the brothers of the MSA to be more active and support the Association in order to bring forth its avowed fruits. 5- The questioner, the ex-president of the MSA, was put in her position by the voters, and so it became binding upon all members of the Association to give loyalty to her as long as there was nothing Haram (unlawful) committed. Allah Almighty knows best. |
| 03/12/04 at 08:29:29 |
| Kathy |
| Re: Need help Women president of MSA |
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| Khariya |
| 03/12/04 at 11:18:56 |
| [slm] shukran sister, I read that one yesterday night. But what I need is more specific info like where is it written( in a book or something) by Ibn Hazm and At-Tabaree, that women can be judges. Thank you for your help though :) |
| 03/12/04 at 11:20:39 |
| Khariya |
| Re: Need help Women president of MSA |
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| Ruqayyah |
| 03/12/04 at 13:22:23 |
| [slm] There is a muslimah judge that was featured in the premiere issue of Azizah magazine. www.azizahmagazine.com Her name is Zakia Mahasa and she is master in chancery, Circuit Court of Baltimore. http://www.islamfortoday.com/mahasa.htm http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2001/03.15/10-americanmuslims.html This website http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm has a lot of cool links on some even cooler muslimah's ;) The pres of two local MSA's in Cleveland are muslimahs and they are ROCKIN' presidents, if you ask me :-* if you want their email, let me know! [wlm] ruqayyah |
| 03/12/04 at 13:22:53 |
| Ruqayyah |
| Re: Need help Women president of MSA |
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| Khariya |
| 03/12/04 at 16:56:52 |
| [slm] shukran sister for the offer, but I know three sisters who have been president of MSA's before, and they all had the same problem with some brothers. I want to show the brothers the actual evidence so I can convince them that it is okay, instead of just going ahead with elections and having them harbor ill feelings towards the sister who wants to be president. P.S the islamfortoday site is great. 8) |
| Re: Need help Women president of MSA |
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| Maliha |
| 03/12/04 at 17:47:30 |
| [slm] Sis, isn't the burden of proof on the brothers??? I mean the hadith clearly states a Khalifa, (there are mad issues on using *one* hadith as evidence on the contrary to many scholars who have contextualized it and provided a Fatwa on the issue)... And even if the hadith is taken to mean being a head of state, the brothers need to provide proof that by analogy this same hadith can be used to also mean any social leadership position. Our MSA could not come up with any good evidences, so they decided to stipulate in the constitution that a president *has* to lead prayers. We were like "???" Anyway, that was a lost battle..and yeah, I am very bitter about it ::) [wlm] |
| Re: Need help Women president of MSA |
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| Nomi |
| 03/12/04 at 22:07:41 |
| [slm] [quote author=Nur_al_Layl link=board=madrasa;num=1079068159;start=0#5 date=03/12/04 at 17:47:30] Our MSA could not come up with any good evidences, so they decided to stipulate in the constitution that a president *has* to lead prayers. We were like "???" Anyway, that was a lost battle..and yeah, I am very bitter about it ::) [/quote] Masha'Allah, clever brothers !! me is impressed. (two points 4 them) BTW why didn't any sister try to find a loophole in that argument and told them that "okay, from this day onwards women will have separate jamaat and our nomi-nee will lead that one"? And it seems that brothers are afraid to respond to this post, coz it looks like a problem with all MSAs out there and we must be having many MSA brothers on the board too, yet they arn't voicing their arguments here! Prolly it shows that they do have a weak case and they can only impose it on sisters due to them being in majority in real life? |
| Re: Need help Women president of MSA |
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| se7en |
| 03/12/04 at 23:35:02 |
| as salaamu alaykum, hmm.. you might want to think about asking the e-board to get the opinion of a local scholar/imam/teacher, and agreeing to abide by his ruling on the matter. that way, the discussion will seem less personal/heated/opinion-based, u know? Here is an EXCELLENT excerpt from The Rights of Man by Shaykh Abdullah bin Baiyyah, that I think has a lot of the info you are looking for: http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=masjid&action=display&num=3874 wasalaamu alaykum :) |
| Re: Need help Women president of MSA |
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| Khariya |
| 03/13/04 at 11:07:34 |
| [slm] mashallah thank you for the excerpt sister. Inshallah this will definitely prove helpful . |
| 03/13/04 at 11:08:15 |
| Khariya |
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