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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Prayer Beads? |
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| Caraj |
| 03/24/04 at 00:06:04 |
| What is the reason and history behind prayer beads? For example Catholics and the Rosary, each bead is a different prayer in a series Our Fathers, Hail Mary's Is there specific prayers for specific beads? Are there to be a certain number of beads on a chain, string? Is there any Quran verses for them? |
| Re: Prayer Beads? |
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| Trustworthy |
| 03/24/04 at 01:15:22 |
| [slm] The prayer beads that Muslims use are just reminders of how many they said in a count when praising Allah. There are usually 99 beads divided after 33 each or there are 33 beads all together. There is no mention in the Qur'an of using it. After we pray, we say Glory to Allah, 33 xs, Praise be to Allah, 33xs, and Allah is Great 33xs. There is a book on it. I'll let you know if what it is. I just don't feel like getting up right now. Ma-asalama.... |
| Re: Prayer Beads? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 03/24/04 at 01:27:49 |
| [slm] There are numerous traditions of the Prophet [saw] which recommend the chanting of various Arabic formulae such as ... Subhan Allah [Glory be to God] Alhamdulillah [Praise be to God] Allahu Akbar [God is the Greatest] Laa ilaha illaa Allaah [There is no god except Allah] Allahumma salli alaa Muhammad ... [O Allah, bless Muhammad ...] etc. Alot of traditions recommend that some of these formulae be recited a certain number of times during the day, or at sunrise, or at sunset, etc. Some are to be recited 100 times. Some 33 times. Some 10 times. Some 7 times. etc. The prayer beads are used to keep a count. Typically the Muslim prayer beads come in a set of 100 beads. There are also others that have different number of beads in the string (I've seen a 1000 one, 10, etc). It is important to note that the beads *themselves* have no sacred value. They are simply a counting tool. It's the words that are chanted which bring one closer to God. Some Muslims, unfortunately, think the beads themselves are sacred. This is not true. Also, some scholars have said the beads should be used sparingly, and one should not become completely dependent on them. This is because the Prophet [saw] himself never used the beads, nor did any of his companions. And because the Muslims try to imitate the Prophet [saw] in every minute detail, it's good to do so in this matter also. However, it is ok to use the beads from time to time to keep a count. And Allah knows best. |
| Re: Prayer Beads? |
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| Trustworthy |
| 03/24/04 at 01:48:46 |
| [slm] Daaaaaaannnnggg!!!! A thousand. :o That's so cool. I gotta git me one a dose. You know where Bro? Ma-asalaama... |
| Re: Prayer Beads? |
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| UmmWafi |
| 03/24/04 at 02:15:05 |
| [slm] Nowadays people even use a "clicking counter" instead of beads. Highly recommended for scatterbrains like moi ::) BTW the clicking counter is a good indicator that the beads themselves have no significant meaning. Wassalam |
| Re: Prayer Beads? |
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| timbuktu |
| 03/24/04 at 02:36:34 |
| [slm] [i]corrected/modified according to sister Trustworthy's valued post below[/i] many have recommended saying the dhikr [s]"chants" (now why don't I like that word?)[/s] on the fingers, which is how in the days of the last prophet [saw] and the Sahaba it was done. One can count three on each finger and the thumb, and it comes to fifteen on one hand. I used to count on the fingers of both hands, but somewhere I found that only the right hand is to be used for counting. It is easy enough to count to 33, 34, or 100. Nothing more than that number is reported in authentic AHadeeth, although many pious people have discovered various formulae for more than that. Beyond 100, what I remember the prophet or some sahabi has said/ recommended that we say this "dhikr" [s]"chants" without counting.[/s] (please someone [s]come up with a better word than "chant", and[/s] correct me on the hadith if my memory is playing tricks here), For myself, I find counting to 100, or doing dhikr without counting, quite satisfactory. Historically, the prayer beads are indeed an adaptation from the Catholic Rosary, which it took from Jewish sources. but I am not sure if the beads need to be discarded. Somewhere I found that the symbol we use for Islam (the Crescent) was also a Byzantine one, which the Ottomans got hold of. Not sure if that story is true, though. OK, the thesaurus gives a lot of alternatives, but let us see what in your opinion is the right word here: Entry: chant Function: noun Definition: chorus Synonyms: carol, croon, hymn, incantation, lilt, melody, psalm, shout, singing, song, trill, tune, warble Concept: performing action Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0) Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved. Entry: chant Function: verb Definition: sing Synonyms: carol, chorus, croon, descant, doxologize, drone, intone, recite, shout, tune, vocalize, warble Concept: vocalization (human) Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0) Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved I would go for recite or intone, but I hand over to those with a better grasp of ze language Inglisi |
| 03/25/04 at 13:49:49 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Prayer Beads? |
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| Trustworthy |
| 03/24/04 at 11:27:12 |
| [slm] Correct term bro, is "Dhikr" pronounced Thikir with a strong annunciation of "th". Or you could use the english term and call it "praises" cause it is what it is. You're correct, chanting is not as beautiful as it sounds when we're praising Allah. Sweet? Cool. Ma-assalama.... |
| Re: Prayer Beads? |
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| sal |
| 03/24/04 at 17:08:25 |
| [quote author=azizah link=board=madrasa;num=1080104764;start=0#0 date=03/24/04 at 00:06:04]What is the reason and history behind prayer beads? For example Catholics and the Rosary, each bead is a different prayer in a series Our Fathers, Hail Mary's Is there specific prayers for specific beads? Are there to be a certain number of beads on a chain, string? Is there any Quran verses for them?[/quote]because of it might make such a confusion to the people ,which color and how long it is recommnded not to use the beads Using of beads is not mentioned in the QURAN .It is what some people use just to remember the no of times they said what they wanted to say. But actually the prophet and the SAHABIS ( his companions) used the fingers.and this is recommended since it doesnt matter if the number of times are not accurate and one more advantage of using fingers is that it makes the person concentrate on his TASBEEH ( DUAA) For example I dont remember when I ever used the beads and I feel very comfortable with my fingers besides it is a matter of 2 minuts after each prayer so no need to seek for an easier way :D |
| Re: Prayer Beads? |
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| nida |
| 03/24/04 at 20:10:28 |
| [slm] hadith: 'Shawkani said in Nayl al-awtar (2:316-317): The Prophet justified the counting of dhikr on the fingers by the fact that the fingers will be questioned(On the Day of Judgement) and will speak, that is, they will witness to that effect. It follows that counting tasbih on them, because of this aspect, is better than using dhikr-beads or pebbles." Its amazing how on the Day of Judgement, every part of our body will speak of what we did... May Allah Guide us all on the straight path.. and grant us the best in this world and the Hearafter.Ameen. :) [wlm] [] :-) |
| Re: Prayer Beads? |
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| MIT |
| 03/25/04 at 06:41:59 |
| as-salaamu alaikum I found this: Question: What is the ruling on using the masbahah (prayer beads)? Praise be to Allâh Some scholars say that it is permissible to use the masbahah, but they say that it is preferable to do tasbeeh on one's fingers; others say that it is bid'ah (reprehensible innovation). Shaykh al-Islâm Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Fataawa (22/187): "Some of them might show off by putting their prayer-mats over their shoulders and carrying their masbahahs in their hands, making them symbols of religion and prayer. It is known from the mutawaatir reports that neither the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) nor his Companions used these as symbols. They used to recite tasbeeh and count on their fingers, as the hadeeth says: "Count on your fingers, for they will asked, and will be made to speak." Some of them may count their tasbeeh with pebbles or date stones. Some people say that doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is makrooh, and some allow it, but no one says that tasbeeh with the masbahah is better than tasbeeh with the fingers." Then he (may Allâh have mercy on him) goes on to discuss the issue of showing off with the masbahah, saying that it is showing off with regard to something that is not prescribed by Islâm, which is worse than showing off with regard to something that is prescribed. Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-'Uthaymeen (al-Liqa' al-Maftooh, 3/30) was asked whether using the masbahah for tasbeeh is bid'ah, and his reply was: "It is better not to do tasbeeh with the masbahah, but it is not bid'ah, because there is a basis for it, which is the fact that some of the Sahaabah did tasbeeh with pebbles. But the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) taught that tasbeeh with the fingers is better, as he said, 'Count with the fingertips, for they will be made to speak.' Doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is not haraam or bid'ah, but it is better not to do it, because the one who does tasbeeh with the masbahah has shunned something better. Using the masbahah may also be contaminated with some element of showing off, because we see some people carrying masbahahs that contain a thousand beads, as if they are telling people, 'Look at me, I do a thousand tasbeehs!' Secondly, those who use the masbahah for tasbeeh are usually absent-minded and not focused, so you see them doing tasbeeh with the beads, but their gaze is wandering all over the place, which indicates that they are not really concentrating. It is better to do tasbeeh with one's fingers, preferably using the right hand rather than the left, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) used to count his tasbeeh on his right hand. If a person counts his tasbeeh using both hands, there is nothing wrong with that, but it is better to use the right hand only." Shaykh Muhammad Naasir al-Deen al-Albaani said in Al-Silsilat al-Da'eefah (1/110), where he quotes the (weak) hadeeth "What a good reminder is the subhah [masbahah]," "In my view, the meaning of this hadeeth is invalid for a number of reasons: Firstly, the subhah [masbahah] is bid'ah and was not known at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him). It happened after that, so how could he (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) have encouraged his Sahaabah to do something that was unknown to them? The evidence for what I have said is the report narrated by Ibn Waddaah in Al-Bid' wa'l-Nahy 'anhaa from al-Salt ibn Bahraam, who said: 'Ibn Mas'ood passed by a woman who had a [masbahah] with which she was making tasbeeh, and he broke it and threw it aside, then he passed by a man who was making tasbeeh with pebbles, and he kicked him then said, "You think you are better than the Sahaabah, but you are following unjustified bid'ah! You think you have more knowledge than the Companions of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him)!"' Its isnaad is saheeh to al-Salt, who is one of the trustworthy (thiqah) followers of the Taabi'een. Secondly, it goes against the guidance of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him). 'Abd-Allâh ibn 'Amr said, 'I saw the Messenger of Allâh (peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him) counting the tasbeeh on his right hand.' " He also said (1/117): "If there is only one bad thing about the masbahah, which it is that it takes the place of the Sunnah of counting on the fingers, even though all are agreed that counting on the fingers is preferable, then that is bad enough. How rarely I see people counting their tasbeeh on their fingers! Moreover, people have invented so many sophisticated ways of following this bid'ah, so you see the followers of one of the [Sufi] tareeqahs wearing the masbahah around their necks! Or some of them counting with the beads whilst talking or listening to you! Or another one - the like of whom I have not seen for some time - riding his bicycle through a street crowded with people, with the masbahah in one of his hands! They are showing the people that they are not distracted from the remembrance of Allâh for even an instant, but in many cases this bid'ah is a cause of their neglecting what is obligatory (waajib). It has happened many times - to others as well as myself - that when I greet one of these people with salaam, they answer only by waving and not by saying the words of the greeting. The bad results of this bid'ah are innumerable, and no one can say it better than the poet: 'All goodness is in following that which went before (the salaf) All badness is in the innovations of those who came later.' " And Allâh knows best. |
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