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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Are you second wife? |
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| Anonymous |
| 03/28/04 at 01:09:57 |
| Is anyone here a 2nd wife would you be willing to talk to someone considering it if so please let me know who you are or message jannah and she can tell you who to send a personal message to. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Anonymous |
| 03/29/04 at 01:25:52 |
| asalaam alakum, I am not a second wife, nor do I plan on considering it inshAllah. however, I have known sisters whose husbands have decided to take second wives. One piece of advice I can say to you sister is to consider the first wife PLEASE. Some are ok with it, but others, their hearts are broken a million pieces. Sometimes they don't even find out about the second wife until their husband has been married for a while. Just remember that as Muslims, we should want for others what we want for our selves. Make sure that his first wife knows about this and is ok with it. jazaki Allah khair w'salaam. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 03/29/04 at 01:39:12 |
| [slm] multiple wives are part of islam. period. with that in mind waht you desire is not wrong. It is not wrong to consider being one of two three or four wives. It is a matter of your heart and his. His first wife knew that she married a muslim. It is inovation to set limits that are not from the Quran or sunna. consider that man that you know or know of. I dont know your situation or his, or any of the other considerations to getting maried in your particular case, but from a strictly islamic stand point there is nothing wrong with marying a man who is already married or intending to marry him. Though as you can see, many who are even muslim may deride you for it if you do it in a non muslim country or a country where it is uncommon. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| gift |
| 03/29/04 at 05:57:56 |
| [slm] [quote author=pebble link=board=madrasa;num=1080454197;start=0#2 date=03/29/04 at 01:39:12] It is inovation to set limits that are not from the Quran or sunna. [/quote] The second anonymous sister was merely advising the first anonymous sister to consider someone's feelings. She was not trying to set limits on the husband's rights to take up to four wives. Please sister do not be so quick to shout 'bid'a' (innovation). I hope I have not offended you with this message :) [I tried to IM you but it wouldn't work] [wlm] |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| jannah |
| 03/29/04 at 13:02:20 |
| [slm] You are allowed to add limits in your marriage contract, saying if he marries after you, you are given automatic right of divorce. There's nothing wrong with adding conditions in your marriage contract. Both can add whatever they want within permissible halal stuff. Check the fiqh of contracts. About being a second wife, I just see so many issues with it in this day and age. I mean he will have to support both wives. He will have to split his time and resources. Since most countries in the world make it illegal, the second wife will have no legal rights. No access to her husband's healthcare or benefits of the state. Nor will her children. I think it could work if you lived someplace where it is prevalent and normal and everything is set up to support it, but here in the US?? problematic |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 03/29/04 at 13:36:13 |
| [slm] so long as the children have the father's name on their birth certificate the children have all the same rights as the children of his first wife legaly to child suport and on his insurance if he has joint or sole custody of them. If the mariage is not leagal there is no community property to dispute over. Wills can be written naming anyone as benificiary and joint financial considerations can be dealt with the same as any business contract between two individuals. The "wife" would have the legal status of a mistress, and leagal issues do not arise unless she checks "married" status on legal documents or is not forthcoming about the financail involvement of the childrens father if she goes for welfare. As far as other considerations go, religiously binding contracts can be drawn up, and though they are not "leagal"ly binding, no legal contract is iron clad either,and the honor and integrity of the indiviuals involved is not deminshed in importance because of legal contracts which can always be circumvented. This is a country where no one is prosecuted for having girlfriends or mistresses though in some states they can have an influence on judgements in divorce cases. In those poligamy cases that have been prosecuted, the main isses have been welfare fraud and statutory rape, whit bigamy being secondary and only proven throug the other charges. And another thing, there are no active cohabitation laws that I know of. And people marry through non legal personal ceremonies all the time, every single day. Live in girlfirends are an american way of life and part of mainstream society. |
| 03/29/04 at 13:42:53 |
| al-ajnabia |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| theOriginal |
| 03/29/04 at 14:00:17 |
| [slm] [quote author=pebble link=board=sis;num=1080584233;start=0#2 date=03/29/04 at 01:39:12] multiple wives are part of islam. period.... His first wife knew that she married a muslim. It is inovation to set limits that are not from the Quran or sunna.[/quote] Multiple wives are part of islam. And that's not the end of that sentence. But I'm guessing we don't have to get into the details of the man's duty to his wives. His first wife knew that she married a Muslim? And hence she should be prepared to be one of two (or three or four) wives? I don't know, but that reeks insensitivity. Pray tell! Who else was that MUSLIM woman supposed to marry? Come on seriously, we all understand the place of polygamy in our religion, at least don't make it sound like a meat market. And as Jannah said, you can add rules on your marriage contract. This was not to discount the query of the sister who posed the question. InshaAllah whatever is best will happen for you. Wasalaam. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 03/29/04 at 15:02:49 |
| [slm] It is something women should consider that their husbands might take other wives. I dont see how that makes poligamy a meat market. Whenever any one gets married, to a single man or a married man, there are always things to consider, such as the old addage "marry in haste, repent in leisure". One of the things to consdier is that public sympathy is always with the first wife even in cases of long standing arangements, even when the first wife was not part of those previous arangements, and the arangements predate their contract. No maraige is a good idea without community support, but it is best in all things to know what comunity you will belong to and which comunity has most to say over your affairs. Consider this, what if the man's family was involved in arangements for him of which he was unaware at the time he had maried the first wife. The family of the first fiance had gone to great expense and harship to prepare their daughter for the maraige, and also there is a child in the existing mariage. when the man realises the situation and the woman sees that she has prepared for a maried man, should he refuse to consider his parents arangement? should he dump the first wife? Should she give up on the life she grew up to expect, even though part of what she was prepared for was other wives? should she deny their obvious compatability and attraction to one another? Should she make ultimatums? Should she tell him to get back on the boat? Modern situations make mulitple mariage better than it has ever been in the past form my point of view, with greater opportunities for women and less dependence. She has more options today than she ever had. But mariage always has been and always will be difficult, nothing worth having isnt. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Ember |
| 03/29/04 at 15:29:06 |
| [slm] Should we evaluate the fact that this allowance was given to men at a time of war, and an abundance of women who needed security given by a man ??? I know that there are other considerations for this rule. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 03/29/04 at 15:36:50 |
| [slm] I dont see how we can consider this a time when there are not threats to islam but the Quran and sunnah also did not limit marraige except for he number of wives and the obligation to treat them all fairly. the only consideration I can see to a state of war was the limit of number itself. That is even in a time of extreem female surplus a man can only be pressured to look after four wives. i am uncertain that allah would have revealed that limit had not the state of war made the hardhip of fairly treating great numbers of muslim women was not a real possibility at that time. Allah allowed men just enough wives to pin down each arm and leg, and stopped short of one more to tickle him. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Umm_Abi_Bakr |
| 03/29/04 at 17:32:51 |
| [slm] But imagine the barakah you'll get being a co-wife. If my future husband have enough money to get another wife, i'd be happy. because of the ajar i'll get : ) |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Ember |
| 03/29/04 at 19:00:06 |
| "Allah allowed men just enough wives to pin down each arm and leg, and stopped short of one more to tickle him. " ;D I don't know about this. "imagine the barakah you'll get being a co-wife" I don't remember reading that there is any special place for those who were "co-wives" as you put it. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 03/29/04 at 23:10:27 |
| [slm] Just to be fair, because we always like to point out things on this board upon which there's a difference of opinion amongst the scholars :): [quote]You are allowed to add limits in your marriage contract, saying if he marries after you, you are given automatic right of divorce.[/quote] This is not something on which there is a consensus of the scholars. Many scholars hold the view that putting this particular condition in the marriage contract is *not* allowed. Please consult a scholar whom you trust (or follow) before you decide to do anything like this. [quote]About being a second wife, I just see so many issues with it in this day and age. [/quote] Like what? [quote]I mean he will have to support both wives.[/quote] Uh huh. And that's special for this day and age?! [quote]He will have to split his time and resources.[/quote] Uh huh. And that's special for this day and age ?! [quote]Since most countries in the world make it illegal, the second wife will have no legal rights.[/quote] I don't know about that. I'd bet most countries in the world allow it. Perhaps you meant most countries in North America ;) Allah (swt) has made polygamy halal for men, and has attached *no* strings to it except the ones that we all know (being just to the wives in what you can control as a human being). There were no conditions such as it must be a time of war, etc. Most of the Prophets had more than one wife. Many companions had more than one wife. And many successors did as well. It is a practice that may or may not have been encouraged, but it was never discouraged in our Deen (again, as long as the man could be just to his wife). And if we find ourselves unhappy or uncomfortable, or find even a tinge of "I wish Allah (awj) had not made it this way" in our hearts, then let each of us blame nobody but ourselves, for that is a weakness of our own imaan, and *our* lack of hikmah which is not able to see the benefits in this Divine allowance. Wallahu a'lam. [quote]here in the US?? problematic [/quote] I have to agree with this. If you live in the US, don't do it. Don't break the law, wherever you are and in whatever you do. Period. Wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah Note: Of course it is well-known and understood that there are many men who, unfortunately, marry second wives for the wrong reasons. Anonymous #2 alluded to that in her post. And therefore, one must be careful before entering into a marriage with a man who's already married, just as one should be careful when entering into *any* marriage period. Do your research, know what you're getting into, be aware that the men of today are not the Sahaabah (r.a.) (although there *are* many good men out there). And come to think of it, that's exactly what the person who began this thread is doing :) May Allah (awj) help you sister, and give you whatever is best. |
| 03/29/04 at 23:33:48 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| jannah |
| 03/29/04 at 23:55:21 |
| [wlm] true there is a difference of opinion about adding the specific clause about multiple wives in the contract. however, there is an opinion that clearly allows it. just to elucidate.. islam makes polygamy permissible. but, i just want to point out all the practical aspects the sister should consider today "in this day and age". you can't imagine circumstances are the same as they were hundreds of years ago or are the same as a muslim country that legalizes and supports it. (i'm assuming she is not from a muslim country where it is prevalent and accepted) the world is a different place, we have issues like visas, international travel, health benefits, government benefits, legalities, birth certificates! there's just a lot of issues to consider and she should be practical and consider them inshaAllah. if after all that she thinks that she can work all those things out and that the probable outcome will be happy then may Allah bless her in it. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 03/30/04 at 08:33:49 |
| [slm] thyere are many conditions that were different back in the day, but it apears to me taht The Quran and sunnah only deal with continuing circumstances. If we cant see how any condition taht the Quran or sunnah coment on continues to today unless that coment was abrogated, then we have a problem witht he way we difine our current situations. Why would Allah reveal the Quran and mean it to aply only to past circumstances but then not go that next step and say so? |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Anonymous |
| 03/30/04 at 15:14:36 |
| I appreciate all the replies. Many issues mentioned are not an issue in this situation and some mentioned I've thought of. My main concern was wife #1. I would never want to hurt another sister never. Children are not an issue on my part as of my age and rights and support are not an issue. I realize what Islam says about supporting wife(wives)but I'm self supporting. My main concern when thinking of this was his wife and children I would never want to hurt another sister or have his children resent me. Jannah is right in her assumptions I am in the US and this brother is not. Equal time is not a factor as I do not require a lot of attention. Health care and other benefits are not an issue either. Over time this brother and I have grown to respect and care for one another and I believe when he speaks of the idea of marriage he does so cause he is very concerned for me being by myself. When I assured him I can take care of myself he pointed out that outside of financial a woman needs love and protection. This may not sound proper of me but the idea of being a second wife is very appealing to me for several reasons. And if someone said I would of even considered this a year or two or ten years ago I would of told them they were nuts and out of their mind. Maybe for some reason Allah has changed my heart. 'If' and when the times comes I will be most careful to make sure we are both doing it for the right reasons and as not to hurt anyone nor be displeasing to Allah. This was a distant thought and I would of really liked to have talked to other sisters already in this situation both wife#1 and wife #2 |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| onemuslimgirl |
| 03/30/04 at 16:16:47 |
| asalaam alakum sister anonymous..... warning signals flashed in my head when you mentioned that your in the U.S. and he is not....i am not saying anything, just be very careful. and mashAllah it is good that ur considering the first wives feelings, maybe you should speak with her and see how she feels about all this inshAllah. to all those who are trying to convince everyone that polygamy is halal, i think everyone agrees to that alhamdullah as it is Allah's words. What i think some people are saying is that there are certain steps to take when going into this kind of an arrangement. for some people its a good arrangement, and for others its not. It is not fard, as some make it out to be; its just there for those who feel it might be the right thing for them. i would not consider marrying a married man. Does that mean that I am against it? No, I just feel that I can not handle that kind of situation. The same thing i don't eat certain types of food that are halal like say beef. Does that make me a bad person? No. I don't go around telling everyone not to eat beef, nor do I say its haram, I just don't eat it, and when it is presented to me, I say, no thanks, I'll take the chicken instead......... |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Mona |
| 03/31/04 at 13:17:13 |
| [slm] My advice to the anon sis is to avoid over-romaticizing the idea of polygamy. Sis, your worries and concerns are in the right place in terms of hurting the first wife. I don't doubt that the brother is a good person and that he holds a lot of respect for you. But, I am sure that his motives are not completely altruistic and that he wants to "achieve" something by this marriage, it is only human to do so. I think it is a good idea to know about the experience of other women who are in a polygamous marriage. The final decision is yours. Take care [wlm] |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| sisterhood |
| 04/05/04 at 11:05:46 |
| [slm] wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu Dear anonymous, I am a 2nd wife and ave been for 4 years so if you would like to talk please im me ok. Fee aman allah |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/06/04 at 11:39:58 |
| [slm] [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=sis;num=1080584233;start=10#12 date=03/29/04 at 23:10:27] Of course it is well-known and understood that there are many men who, unfortunately, marry second wives for the wrong reasons. [/quote] What are some wrong reasons? ??? Earlier in the post you said: [quote] Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala) has made polygamy halal for men, and has attached *no* strings to it except the ones that we all know (being just to the wives in what you can control as a human being). [/quote] |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Mossy |
| 04/06/04 at 12:40:15 |
| Wait, marriage is made up of two parts, right? There's the covenant before Allah (swt), the ibadat part of it as it were. Then there's the civil obligation recognised by society (mu'amalat?). In a country that doesn't allow for multiple spouses on the civil side, wouldn't peforming the religious side actively deprive one of the spouses of the standard rights that are accorded in marriage? Isn't that impermissable as you cannot therefore treat them equally as is explicitly indicated? Just a thought. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 04/06/04 at 17:26:43 |
| [slm] the answer is to have individual contracts rather than civil mariage in any case. People get taken for all they got in civil mariages, and people need to be watchful and consider in all mariages. The alterantive is to leave muslim women alone and in bad situtions without mahrams. Even in non muslim situations in the us long term mistresses are fairly common and may become more common as things get more intense in Iraq. Already they report we are already 600 men down, and that doesnt count those who passed later offf the initial field of battle. Do you think those women are planning to become nuns who those men would have been married to? |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Barr |
| 04/06/04 at 19:52:38 |
| [wlm] warahmatullah [quote]The alterantive is to leave muslim women alone and in bad situtions without mahrams.[/quote] Afwan, sis... but the alternative on *NOT* entering a polygenous situation does not lead to an exclusive neglect of women. Please do not make generalised statements. Each person has their own unique situation and the dynamics are complicated. Polygeny is not the *only* solution to everything. [quote]Even in non muslim situations in the us long term mistresses are fairly common and may become more common as things get more intense in Iraq. Already they report we are already 600 men down, and that doesnt count those who passed later offf the initial field of battle. Do you think those women are planning to become nuns who those men would have been married to? [/quote] Are you insinuating that all widows of such soldiers are ripe potential mistresses waiting to be plucked from trees? If so, I find that very insulting. If I had mistinterpret your post, pls forgive me. Afwan. Allahua'lam |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 04/06/04 at 20:01:54 |
| [slm] Even the Quran does not claim that it is normal or natural for people to be single. I dont feelthat I am insulting anyone and as someone who had a degree in history and who studdied the effects of WWI and WWII I fing being acused of making generlizatins a little knee jerk. Also it is a simple staement of relaity that I live with every single day that a woman without strong related men in the community is a target of every possible insult and not even muslims will defend her from this. Single life is not the ideal for a muslim nor is an inapropriate maraige to whoever who happens to be single. we argue about women who should defy the law to wear a scarf and a scarf does not provide near so much protection from harrassment as a man who cares about her well being. it is less unfair to have a second wife who is legally a mistress than to have a second wife who one never sees because of the laws that dont alow mulitple civil mariages. Lack of legal mariage does not prevent a man form spending equal time a resources on each family. But becaue civil mariage in western countries limits a man from marying within the sharia, I argue that such civil mariages are against sharia. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| momineqbal |
| 04/06/04 at 20:11:18 |
| [slm], Can someone confirm to me that ayah no 3 below is the only place where Allah mentioned (in the Quran) about how many women a muslim man can marry? Also, why is it in the same sentence as "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, ....". I am not sure I truly understand. Something lost in translation? [quote] Chapter 4:Al Nisa' 1. O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you. 2. To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin. 3. If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. 4. And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, Take it and enjoy it with right good cheer. [/quote] Wassalam, Eqbal |
| 04/06/04 at 20:13:19 |
| momineqbal |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| theOriginal |
| 04/06/04 at 23:03:37 |
| [slm] Totally missing the point sis pebble...maybe you can clarify it for me, because I don't want to be disrespectful to thousands of years of scholarship. Are you claiming that having a second wife is just a legalized way of keeping a mistress? Presonally, I think that's disrespectful to the entire institution of marriage on its own. A marriage is not solely to fulfill a man's desires. I mean seriously, you must have more faith in Muslim men than that? Secondly, for a woman, her marriage means a lot, so holding the place of a mistress while legally being a man's wife, is really disgusting. And I think that this is where the equality between wives issue stems from in the first place. Btw, there are a lot of good, single muslim men out there looking to get married. Since every situation is specific, I think if someone is justified in saying that being open to a polygomous relationship is preferable, then I am equally justified in saying that it's not. Now if you're saying that civil marriages are anti-shari'ah, I think you opened a WHOLE other can of worms there, sister. We are required to obey state laws as Muslims. And if you open your eyes up a little bit, if civil marriages were not required by law, there would be a lot of women getting screwed over today. I am sure i don't have to start listing horror stories, even though I could. I'm still missing the point. Once again, this post was not aimed to any specific marriage situation, this is in general terms. Wasalaam. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Nabila |
| 04/07/04 at 06:12:37 |
| [slm] I have heard that it is permissable for a man to keep his second wife secret from his first wife. Is this true? Because anyway I think about it sounds sneaky and underhanded to me - whats the first wife supposed to do when she finds out that for one or two years her husbands had a whole life without her. If someone could explain if this is true, and the reasoning behind it, I'd appreciate it. A quick comment: I dont think that a man or woman involved in a second marriage are puttin limits onto what is halaal when they take into account the first wifes' feelings. 1,400 years ago, polygyny was a recognised and normal lifestyle. It was not seen as an insult to the first wife, nor a reflection of her inadequacy. However, the world has moved on, and the whole paradigm of a loving relationship has shifted more to the Western ideal in most peoples' consiousness where a one on one relationship is seen as more 'normal'. People often cant help the way feel about this issue, so I think it is only courtesy and good adab to talk through and create a comfortable loving arrangement that will benefit all those that are involved. ma asalaamah and take care |
| it is less unfair to have a second wife who is leg |
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| Halima |
| 04/07/04 at 07:01:08 |
| pebble wrote: [quote]Even the Quran does not claim that it is normal or natural for people to be single. I dont feelthat I am insulting anyone and as someone who had a degree in history and who studdied the effects of WWI and WWII I fing being acused of making generlizatins a little knee jerk.[/quote] My dear Sis, the world wars were ages ago. I have been divorced for 11 years now and I am still a normal person just like you. And I feel as natural as I used to be before and after marriage. Mind you, people do not loose their minds by being single regardless of whether they never married or got divorced. again pebble wrote: [quote]Also it is a simple staement of relaity that I live with every single day that a woman without strong related men in the community is a target of every possible insult and not even muslims will defend her from this. Single life is not the ideal for a muslim nor is an inapropriate maraige to whoever who happens to be single. we argue about women who should defy the law to wear a scarf and a scarf does not provide near so much protection from harrassment as a man who cares about her well being.[/quote] Walahaula! What a warped statement. In 11 years, no one has ever insulted me. In fact, I command more respect not because people feel sorry for me but because of my strength and sense of responsibility for my life. You are describing a barbaric situation that is not based on fact. Single life is ideal when circumstances warrant. So, my dear, don't generalise, please. yet again, pebble wrote: [quote]it is less unfair to have a second wife who is legally a mistress than to have a second wife who one never sees because of the laws that dont alow mulitple civil mariages. Lack of legal mariage does not prevent a man form spending equal time a resources on each family. But becaue civil mariage in western countries limits a man from marying within the sharia, I argue that such civil mariages are against sharia.[/quote] If is an insult to those married as second wives to be described as legal mistress. Subhanalla, what a callous way to put. Anonymous, sorry that your post is taking twists and turns. Whatever you decide should be what is best for you and your situation. May Allah guide you. Halima |
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| Kathy |
| 04/07/04 at 08:37:49 |
| [quote author=bhaloo link=board=sis;num=1080584233;start=10#19 date=04/06/04 at 11:39:58] What are some wrong reasons? ??? [/quote] Green Card is one of the biggest reasons 'they' do it. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 04/07/04 at 11:00:13 |
| [slm] Ithink from what I am reading in your posts that you simply do not what for your sisters what you want for yourselves. That is why you are twisitn my words to say things thath they dide not intend, I think you have better reading comprehension than that and you have no intention of rationally considering this issue. This is tuning into a deliberat concealment of the truth form people who are seeing legitamate otpions which exist. You deny and conceal reality. Waht a belssed life you have had that you havenever been harrassed in 11 years. I feel that Imust have been taking some of the harasemnet allotment that was yours for you ifthis is really true. did you make some kind of comprimise to avoid harrasment that was not available to me? Becaue I my situation I have no way out and Am doing the best I can as a single woman but still there is no mercy from woman or man for me, can you be real for one moment? or is this all just la la land topics for you? The point I am trying to make to those of you who say :-*OOh dont break the LAw! :-* is that ther is no criminal law about extra marital afairs and that if a man took a second wife in the us acording to the law unless he sought a civil maraige that is all he would be doing in THeir eyes. :-*In Allahs eyes she would be his wife. :-* I think I am right about this: :-*you do not wish for your sisters what you wish for yourself :-* and that is waht all this uproar is about. If a man married you for your deen and then saw a woman equally deserving of his attention for the same reason or even more needy because of dire circumtances, wouldnt you be informing him that you diecieved him about your level of love for your fellow muslims by throwing this fit? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 04/07/04 at 11:16:24 |
| [slm] When a man has two wives neither can dominate him, one may pull him one way and the other another but this only reminds him to consder his own understaning in all things, this way he is a better support to both of them. When only one woman had all of his attention it is easier for her to manipulate him and to pull him from his deen which also pushes her further from the path of deen. If a wife is a resentful person she will be a resentful person whether she is one wife or one of two. Children will learn resentment from her. So much is expected of a man in Islam he can easily become the slave of the wrong sort of woman if he is not careful. This causes him to resent his family and his children will not have the best from him because of this. People with a lot of brothers and sisters have many people they can turn to in times of trouble, and they have a way of seeing their own inherited tratis in others. Imagine growing old in such a big family when you die you might have a thousand nices and nephiews and grand nieces and nepiews and so on. We in wester society look at other wives as ethier slaves or husband stealing harlots, but it doesnt matter what we think, when we are old we will rot in nursing homes (not a genrealization have worked in them) and they will have too many descendants to run away from no matter how hard the might try, and every single one of them will have been deeply touched by them. You can think of it one sidedly in terms of :-*I'm not sharing my man for Allah or anybody :-* But I think in terms of the Good He wants for us and they He knows more than we do in all things and if He alows an optin then it is allowed and a good for us if we take it. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| BroHanif |
| 04/11/04 at 20:20:25 |
| Salaams, I posted this couple of weeks back. One of my so called friends is busy chatting away on the internet. Gets in touch with a hot lass in America, shes under 25 ripe age for sex and babies. First wife and 3 kids do not know anything about dads wishes for marriage again. Guy(jerk) then gets really close to girl in America, they consider marriage. Jerk then goes to America, marries her brings her back to UK First wife finds out, is now depressed, and don't know how to handle her life. Kids have a mental scar for rest of life. Dad now spends more time with second wife. If guys can appoint correct time and resources to both wives then that is acceptable, if you can't then guys(jerks) should stick to the first wife. If they find their desires are getting the better of em and their eyes start to drift to other women, keep fasting till you die. But do not cause your first wife and kids to suffer. A wife will never be too kewl about her man going to another woman. Salaams, Hanif |
| NS |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| onemuslimgirl |
| 04/11/04 at 21:14:47 |
| Br. Hanif, Thats so sad. What would make a young girl marry an older man, who is already married with 3 children? I mean its not like she needs citizenship or anything because you say she is from America. To be honest with you, I think both parties are to blame, but it makes me wonder that maybe no one was proposing to this young girl. I have known Muslimas who have certain circumstances that don't make them a prime target for marriage, ie married before, certain undesirable physical characteristics, hase young children, etc. They too want to get married and have kids, but none of the brothers are considering her. So she must settle, even if its for an older guy with kids. So maybe there are three parties to blame, the older man, the young girl, and all those young men who didn't consider this young girl. just my ramblings...... |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/14/04 at 22:55:39 |
| assalamu alykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh! I am second wife, alhamdulillah. At first, I was aprehensive but after realizing that we are not violating any of Allah's limits, I gave in. Everything was created in pairs, and I do believe that I belong to a pair. As women, we need to be cared for by a man, as Allah has said, "men are protectors of women", plus of course we need to fulfill the natural desires Allah has placed in this body of ours, in a lawful manner. WIth the evergrowing surplus of women out there, i'm ever thankful and garteful to Allah for giving me a Muslim husband, regardless of being the second. I believe that it is better to have half, a third or a fourth of a husband than to have no husband at all! Ma'as Salam! |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Rabia |
| 04/20/04 at 22:45:12 |
| As Salaamu Alaikum Sisters, I am not a second wife, I'm not even a first wife. All of the men in my family keep trying to marry me off, but I don't want to be married; at least I didn't think that I did. For a while now I've considered being a second or third wife. It's always been in the back of my mind, but now I'm strongly considering it. Most of my family is against it, and for the members who aren't Muslim (parents), I worried about how they would respond to it. For me it's a thing of not wanting to be bothered. I know that sounds stupid, maybe even selfish, but it's how I feel and I can't change that. I don't want to share my living space with a man, I don't want too much of my time being devoted to one ~ I just really don't want to be bothered. I am 28 years old and have come to realize that I truly, truly enjoy being ALOOOOONE. I would love to have children however, so they would need a father in their lives. I believe that when the time comes (insha'allah) that I'm ready to have children, I'll be financially able to provide for the most part, but I realize that I can't do it alone. Even if it weren't haraam, I wouldn't want a fatherless child. I would definitely want to speak with the first wife. I too have heard and even personally witnessed the pain the comes from men marrying without their wives knowing. My grandmother remained alone and quite content after divorcing my grandfather at the age of 27...she just didn't feel like being bothered either! ;D |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 04/21/04 at 17:43:59 |
| [slm] I think it is much better to be another wife than to be no wife, a first wife may not like it, but as for me, so many of the trobles in my life are the result of being alone. I am simply a sitting duck, I am constantly in situations where others can get as many people as they choose to back them in a lie, but me, alone in the truth, well, I'm sure that you know the story. If I had a husband, people woulnd mess with me as often because there would be atleast one person who could be counted on to take my part. and at least one night out of four there would be someone physically present with me. so much of the trouble I am a target of could not be going on if I were not alone 24/7. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/26/04 at 16:10:12 |
| During talks about this matter we have decided it may not be a wise choice. Neither of us wish to hurt his wife and children in any way.I appreciate all the posts in this subject. Please know this brother had no bad intentions and I wanted to come to his defense when a couple posts suggested he may have less than honorable intentions but he has nothing but the best intentions. He is a very kind and considerate man who was simply worried about me. He is very wise and very compassionate and a wonderful man whose only intentions were that of someone who cares and worries about me a lot. There are no other motives, no need for a green card, no need for a second wife to be honest. I do thank all of the posters for sharing their feelings on this matter. To the sister who mentioned over romanticing being a second wife, to be honest the idea is very appealing to me cause I value my privacy and time alone. However even such type a woman needs to feel loved and protected and some companionship. Someone to share things with. |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| Angelic |
| 04/28/04 at 20:38:18 |
| Dear Anonymous I joined this thread very late but I am a second wife and I can relate to your feelings because that is how the situation has been for me too. Due to childhood experiences I never wanted to get involved with a man let alone be married. I like my own space and am very self sufficient. I am now 37 1/2 years old and was married this year. My husband wanted to help a revert sister. After many long discussions about my life to my husband he kept saying to me why do you deny the right to feel loved and having companionship. Of course I was very scared at first, I've been on my own for the most part of my life, even as a child I was alone emotionally. I noticed the times when my friends came to visit how I would feel overcrowded with another body in my apartment. I couldn't imagine having my husband around me all the time and felt that 2nd wife might be the best situation. I'm not American so can't say that he wants a Green card. I have been through some rough times with him in the last couple of months, as a revert there some things I've been struggling with which has nothing to do with him but he hasn't been pleased with but it has nothing to do with polygamy. Although I am only a second wife, I can completely divorce my life away emotionally from his other family. I'm not saying I ignore them, I don't ignore them at all but I am not emotional about the fact that I am sharing my husband, I don't even think of it that way at all. There are a lot of woman out there who are very jealous and just couldn't simply share their husband, it is always on their mind that they are sharing their husband but there are woman out there also, just like Anon and myself who do not focus on the jealousy aspect of it. A lot of people won't understand but I feel this arrangement for me allows me to have a husband and yet still continue with many of my interests as if I was still single. I feel he is a lot more flexible with me because for him, he does have another wife. Since we are of different nationalities this is good because it means I can go back home often. But for non-polygamous marriages, the husband may not necessarily be as flexible, to lose his wife for 1month or 2months but become too hard for him and this might make the wife sad if he doesn't allow her to do what she likes also. Anyway I just wanted to share my thoughts. It seems like you have found your answer. So just go for it. Love Katrina |
| Re: Are you second wife? |
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| al-ajnabia |
| 04/28/04 at 21:36:26 |
| [slm] Ihad a pretty screwed up childhood too. In my past I have alteranted between really clingy and very distant. I dont know if I can even imagine being somones first or only wife very serioiusly. I just care about two people being comfortable with one another, and I think that it is posible to have a very personal intimate relationship that is unique with a person even if he has another personal intimate unique realtionship with someone else. With me, i cant feel safe with someone who is not of a spacific background in Islam. I could never give a man whois a convert the kind of trust a wife would need to give her husband, and I could never feel safe in a modern style marriage, but at the very least it can be said about me tha ti was rasied abroad. I worry if I can provide the traditional behavior a man I could feel safe with might expect. maybe I can, sometimes Im more traditional than I think, I surprise myself sometimes, but I dont know, I'm just not making singleness a contingent or a factor inmy descision making. My living situation is just so terrible, and I cant change it. The only thing I can do is I have decided taht if I get woke up by shenanigans durring the last third ofthe night I go and sit on the masjid steps and talk to allah while he is on the earth. I figure it is just as unsafe for me to stay i my dorm room as it is to walk to the masjid at 3am. I did that once and then decided to do it again the next night and Iwas left alone during that time. maybe Im alone because allah wants to be the only one whocan help me with this, but it seems like the normal thing would be for my husband to provide me with a safe home. But I just go talk to Allah, and if something happens as I walk backand forth in the dark, maybe I'll get a baby I can keep, sometimes good does emerge form terrible. |
| Re: Polygamy not exclusively for marrying orphans |
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| WhatDFish |
| 04/29/04 at 15:13:08 |
| assalaamu`alaikum I disagree with the line "Islam merely allows polygyny but does not encourage it." that is wrong, the FACT that Rasulullah practised it, is it not encouragement enough?? enuf of "this day and age" . . . but pardon me, im here with a reply from Sheikh Salman's site that will inshaa'Allah answer bro momineiqbals question. Polygamy not exclusively for marrying orphans Question: Concerning polygamy, many people misinterpret Allah’s words so that polygamy seems categorically permitted. Allah says “If ye fear that ye shall not deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if you fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (a captive) that your right hand possesses, that will be more suitable to prevent you from doing injustice.” Some people say that a man can simply marry more than one wife without any strong reason for doing so as long as he is going to be fair with both of them. This neglects completely the part of the verse that allows polygamy under the condition that a person fears that he won't be just with the orphans. From my point of view, which could be wrong, this is clear evidence that Allah allows polygamy in extenuating circumstances where there are many orphans or widows without sufficient men to take care of them. Answered by the Fatwa Department Research Committee - chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî The problem here is a question of the understanding of the verse, which is contingent on the language of the verse and on the evidence in the Qur’ân and Sunnah that explains it. Let us, then, take a look at what the verse is actually saying: The verse reads: “If you fear you will not deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, three, or four...” [Sűrah al-Nisâ: 3] This is a translation of: “Wa in khiftum allâ tuqsitű fil-yatâmâ fa-nkihű mâ tâb lakum min al-nisâ’, mathnâ wa thulâth wa rubâ`…” [Sűrah al-Nisâ: 3] The verse does not say to marry the orphans if they fear that they cannot do justice to them. It says to marry “women of your choice” (mâ tâb lakum min al-nisâ’). This is clear permission to marry women in general. It does not in any way refer back to the orphans. It does not say “marry from among the orphans” (fa-nkihű min al-yatâmâ) or “marry from among them” (fa-nkihű minhinn) or “marry women of your choice from among them” (fa-nkihű mâ tâb lakum min al-nisâ’ minhinna) or anything else that could be construed to refer back to the orphans. What is being said here, actually, is to not marry the orphans but to marry other women. When there are a lot of orphan girls, the non-mahram guardians of many of these orphan girls have an unfair advantage over them if they wish to marry them for themselves. Being their guardians, they will be tempted to marry them without paying them their full dowries or in order to confiscate their inheritance. Therefore, Allah is telling these men that if they fear that they cannot deal justly with the orphans whom they wish to marry, then they should marry other women. `A'ishah, the wife of the Prophet (peace be upon him) explained this verse as follows: A man was taking care of a female orphan and he married her, although he did not desire to marry her. That girl's money was mixed with his, and he was keeping her portion from her. Afterwards, this verse was revealed about his case. [Sahîh al-Bukhârî] Once, `Â’ishah’s nephew`Urwah b. al-Zubayr asked her about the meaning of the Allah’s words “If you fear you will not deal justly with the orphans…”. She said: O my nephew! This is about the orphan girl who lives with her guardian and shares his property. Her wealth and beauty may tempt him to marry her without giving her an adequate dowry which might have been given by another suitor. So, such guardians were forbidden to marry such orphan girls unless they treated them justly and gave them the most suitable dowry; otherwise they were ordered to marry woman besides them. [Sahîh al-Bukhârî] This is the explanation of the verse given by the Mother of the Believers who was there at the time the verse was revealed and who knew firsthand the reason for its revelation. It is also the interpretation that is consistent with the language of the verse. Interpreting the verse to mean that people should force weak orphan girls in polygamous marriages is an unjust and erroneous interpretation of the verse. And Allah knows best. |
| 04/29/04 at 15:16:01 |
| WhatDFish |
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