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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Pornography |
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| Kathy |
| 04/11/04 at 15:04:27 |
| [slm] How would you advise a wife whose husband is addicted to pornography? And I mean addicted in the clinical sense. She is too embarrassed to look for help in her community or to share his 'secret' with the family. I checked with Islam Q&A and Islamicity, but found little advice for the wife. |
| Re: Pornography |
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| resistance4ever |
| 04/11/04 at 16:16:32 |
| [slm] 1) Hide his cables for the VCR. 2) let nature take its course. I have read that people that are addicted to porn eventually become immune to seeing women naked and hence thier "bits" stop working, they become impotent, and seeing a naked woman has no affect. So sooner or later, his whole purpose for watching this filth will become void. And viagra wont help, especially if he reads the latest reports that even taking one pill can cause infertility. 3) Get professional help. Your not likely to find much help for this in the muslim community, so try elsewhere, non-muslim councillors, i'm sure they'd have people trained to deal with this kind of thing. and 4) Divorce him (if he doesnt change) [wlm] |
| Re: Pornography |
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| superFOB |
| 04/11/04 at 17:36:50 |
| [slm] Sadly MOST 'ulama are not equipped to deal with many modern ailments and fatwa websites (without exceptions) do even worse. There are even some who have halalified porn, may Allah guide us all. Sound Vision has many open discussions on this issue and you can find some good advice over there. Now for some "free" advice: Since he is clinically addicted to porn, take him to a shrink! Seriously, it is a modern, mostly male disorder and needs to be treated. It will not be easy for the sister to force/beg him to go to the doctor. She can first threaten him with third party intervention and if he doesn't agree even then, involve a third party. Now this third party needs to be someone the "patient" respects and would listen to and act upon his advice. It must not be those types who shoot first and ask questions later. Getting him professional help is only the first step. Its a long term problem, and just like drugs (bhaloo posted an interesting article on the drug-like effect of this on male brains a while back), full rehab will require a strict regimen for life. This means NO internet, NO TV, and NO magazines. Every addiction is due to ghaflah and porn is not an exception either. He needs serious islamic advice (but not before the doctor's imho). This will help develop immunity within himself (taqwa) which an addict lacks. And it seems that the hubby has a LOT of free time on his hands, so this time needs to be spent elsewhere in a spiritual environment. Now this might mean "extended" periods of time that would leave little time to waste. There are many options out there if one cares to find out. Of course, all of this would require a LOT of sacrifice on the wife's part, but hey, its a short life full of trials. |
| Re: Pornography |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 04/12/04 at 01:55:15 |
| [slm] I have to agree with a lot of what SuperFOB said. Masha Allah, the brother seems to know what he's talking about. The only thing I would disagree with though is this part: [quote]the hubby has a LOT of free time on his hands, so this time needs to be spent elsewhere in a spiritual environment.[/quote] From my limited knowledge about this particular ailment, if it has indeed become and addiction for the man, then it has nothing to do with free time. He might be the busiest man in the world, but if he is addicted to pornography, then it doesn't matter whether he has free time or not. He will find the time to satisfy his addiction. If he is indeed addicted, he definitely needs professional help. Islamic spirituality can definitely remedy the problem, but he needs someone to help him who has not only mastered Islamic spirituality but also human psychology. I'm afraid that simply a push for reading more Qur'an, fasting, etc will not remedy the problem (except if Allah wills, of course). Btw, it is not always *entirely* the man's fault to be addicted to pornography. This may come as a surprise, but it's the truth. Sometimes a man can become addicted to pornography because he was sexually abused as a child. Or it could be because he perceived (by means of sight, hearing, or anything else) sexual activity as a child. And this is why it is *so* important not to jump the gun and start judging people, subhan Allah. (I'm not saying anyone here is doing that). May Allah (awj) help us all! Wallahu ta'ala a'lam. Abu Hamza P.S. None of the above should be taken to mean that I'm condoning watching pornography! A'oodhu billah. It is a sin, as we all know it. The Prophet (saw) said that the eyes commit zinaa. Simply because someone is addicted to something does not mean that the act is not a sin, or he is excused from it. It simply means that the illness has reached severity and needs to be handled professionally. P.P.S. I'm sorry for not being able to provide a concrete solution for the sister. :( |
| 04/12/04 at 02:02:00 |
| Abu_Hamza |
| Re: Pornography |
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| superFOB |
| 04/12/04 at 02:18:04 |
| [slm] [quote author=Abu_Hamza link=board=bro;num=1081710268;start=0#3 date=04/12/04 at 01:55:15]From my limited knowledge about this particular ailment, if it has indeed become and addiction for the man, then it has nothing to do with free time. He might be the busiest man in the world, but if he is addicted to pornography, then it doesn't matter whether he has free time or not. He will find the time to satisfy his addiction. If he is indeed addicted, he definitely needs professional help. Islamic spirituality can definitely remedy the problem, but he needs someone to help him who has not only mastered Islamic spirituality but also human psychology. I'm afraid that simply a push for reading more Qur'an, fasting, etc will not remedy the problem (except if Allah wills, of course). Btw, it is not always *entirely* the man's fault to be addicted to pornography. This may come as a surprise, but it's the truth. Sometimes a man can become addicted to pornography because he was sexually abused as a child. Or it could be because he perceived (by means of sight, hearing, or anything else) sexual activity as a child. And this is why it is *so* important not to jump the gun and start judging people, subhan Allah. (I'm not saying anyone here is doing that).[/quote] Lets face it brother, most of the people do have a LOT of free time on their hands which they spend watching TV or whiling it away in some other useless activity, or in this particular case, watching porn. And this is not a rare disorder, quite widespread, some people are just more susceptible (genetically) to getting addicted. I bet not less than 95% of the men do waste a major portion of their time and thats exactly what I was alluding to in my last post. My point was to utilize that free time post-treatment, so that the husband doesn't fall victim to withdrawls. The sister asked a general question (I don't see any specifics) and a general answer is what she got. Btw, I did emphasize psychiatric help over islamic advice at this juncture, not the other way round, I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression. |
| 04/12/04 at 02:37:24 |
| superFOB |
| Re: Pornography |
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| Kathy |
| 04/12/04 at 10:49:12 |
| [slm] The sis is looking for advice as to what she can do. Apparently it is a long time problem and a couple years back he lost his mind, became paranoid (clinically) and was hospitalized in a psych center. He has been on life long drugs and 'clean' of porn for 2 years. But he started recently and is becoming paranoid again. She is looking for Islamic advice. The docs have recommended things not allowed in Islam, ie relieving oneself. Are there any particular duas? Also she was wondering if she reminds him of proper Islamic ettiquite, will this make him feel even more guilty and push him over the edge again? I have no clue, and I am not a scholar. But I recognize her inability to go to anyone in the community. If he is anything like my hubby, i am sure he would not go for help either to a Muslim. I remember when my first hubby was having problems. I went to the psych doc with him. The advice they gave was outrageously dangerous. So I know what she is going thru. I realize this board is not set up with professionals. Insha Allah, maybe a bro who is involved with this sort of behaviour will see the damage that will be inflicted. |
| Re: Pornography |
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| sal |
| 04/12/04 at 17:40:02 |
| Islamically if husband is practicing some thing HARAM the wife has the right to get divorced but it is recommended to WARN first and give chance however as i can see here what sister kathy said [quote] The sis is looking for advice as to what she can do. Apparently it is a long time problem and a couple years back he lost his mind, became paranoid (clinically) and was hospitalized in a psych center. He has been on life long drugs and 'clean' of porn for 2 years. But he started recently and is becoming paranoid again. [/quote] There had been chances already before this.Now she has the options either to leave him right now or give him more chance [quote] She is looking for Islamic advice [/quote] My personal and ISLAMIC advice says if they have never been divorced before (this is the first TALAGH) let her get divorced if he is not able to abandon this habbit So he will understand things are serious and perhaps makes him think well to not lose her perpetually If he repents and comes back they have the chance to get remarried but If he insists then let him go away and INSHALLAH ALLAH WILL give her better than him let her say this duaa ALLAHUM AI'JURNY BI MUSIBATY WA AKHLIFLY KHAIRUN MINAHA BUT I WOULD SAY IF THAT PRESSURE WONT WORK THE SECRET FOR THIS CONFLICT TO REMAIN BETWEEN THEM AS NOBDOY CAN HELP TO CURE HIM WITH DIRECT ADVICES and let him go .She is right and better for her ;D |
| Re: Pornography |
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| se7en |
| 04/12/04 at 18:28:19 |
| as salaamu alaykum, Okay, I think there is a difference between presenting with a simple addiction, and presenting with an addiction to pornography AND paranoid tendencies, as well as a history of disorders and treatment. If some of his earlier symptoms of paranoia are returning, then this is *not* something his wife should overlook or ignore. In fact, this addiction might simply be a different way for the patient's disorder to manifest itself. I doubt that what you mentioned was the sum total of the doctors suggested treatment for the patient... Is there some hesitancy on the part of the wife to get involved in treatment once again? Or perhaps the doctor did not know of the husband's history? This case may not necessarily have all that much to do with sexuality. It's not the same as the average joe guy who indulges in this stuff. If the wife is truly concerned for his well being, she should urge her husband to return for treatment, and work with the doctor on a plan of medical and counseling therapy that she feels comfortable with. People who have paranoia or paranoid tendencies do not see the world clearly and interpret things incorrectly as hostile; and if it is in it's more severe form delusions also occur. So.. the person needs treatment. They need treatment. They need treatment! |
| 04/12/04 at 18:29:47 |
| se7en |
| Re: Pornography |
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| superFOB |
| 04/13/04 at 03:59:06 |
| [quote author=Kathy link=board=bro;num=1081710268;start=0#5 date=04/12/04 at 10:49:12]Apparently it is a long time problem and a couple years back he lost his mind, became paranoid (clinically) and was hospitalized in a psych center. He has been on life long drugs and 'clean' of porn for 2 years. But he started recently and is becoming paranoid again.[/quote] I have a hunch that the history goes back more than two years, maybe even before the marriage. Seen way too many of these cases where the ostensible cure for a guy's mental problems is to marry him off to a poor unsuspecting woman. [quote author=Kathy link=board=bro;num=1081710268;start=0#5 date=04/12/04 at 10:49:12]She is looking for Islamic advice. The docs have recommended things not allowed in Islam, ie relieving oneself. I remember when my first hubby was having problems. I went to the psych doc with him. The advice they gave was outrageously dangerous. So I know what she is going thru.[/quote] When one is sick haram and makruh can become ok, get in touch with a 'aalim near you. [quote author=Kathy link=board=bro;num=1081710268;start=0#5 date=04/12/04 at 10:49:12]Are there any particular duas? Also she was wondering if she reminds him of proper Islamic ettiquite, will this make him feel even more guilty and push him over the edge again?[/quote] Doses of islamic advice at this stage WILL surely backfire. [quote author=Kathy link=board=bro;num=1081710268;start=0#5 date=04/12/04 at 10:49:12]I have no clue, and I am not a scholar. But I recognize her inability to go to anyone in the community. If he is anything like my hubby, i am sure he would not go for help either to a Muslim.[/quote] Sister, mental illness requires an entire family to take care of the individual, its not your common cold. Especially in this case, the head of the house hold has lost his mind! You have a woman expecting what every woman expects of her husband and here she is stuck with a grown up child instead. Plus, the bond of mother child is not there which is so helpful in mental illness. I can sympathize, even "empathize" with the poor wife. She herself is in severe need of generous mental support which can only come from close relatives, the guys parents, siblings, even the wife's family. She can't and should not handle it alone. [quote author=Kathy link=board=bro;num=1081710268;start=0#5 date=04/12/04 at 10:49:12]I realize this board is not set up with professionals.[/quote] There must be muslim psychiatrists near you. One thing you can expect to find almost anywhere in north america is a muslim specialist. Get hold of one. Post a sign in the masjid etc. |
| Re: Pornography |
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| Kathy |
| 04/13/04 at 10:54:20 |
| [slm] Thanks for all the advice. This is what I found out. Her hubby has been addicted since before they were married. She did not know of this until about 3 years ago. They have been married for a long time. She did support him in his therapy a couple years ago and even went with him, against all shreds of decency. The only Muslim Psch doc in the area blamed her for her hubbies demise. sigh... unfortunately the 'shrink' was not beneficial, because the hubby refused to take advice or do the work involved to get better. However, until recently, all was well so the wife figured it was a chemical imbalance and the drugs were all he really needed. I asked her about the free time. She said he has tons of it, but apparently 'imbibed' when she went to halaqas and to the masjid. in other words, now she feels like a prisoner, because if she leaves... Her husband has continued medical treatment and has not stopped taking his meds. It sounds like an alcoholic who fell off the wagon. Alhumdullillah, they made an appt. for this week. One of her closest friends suggested she get divorced. Bur I am not going to suggest that at this time. There are children involved. Even giving the 'first' divorce may leave psych scars on the kids. And typically, like most immigrant families... they have none here, to support her or him. there is no where for her and the kids to go, if he won't leave, and basically no one for him either. Yea, I feel really bad for the wife too. I just hope the brothers out there take the seriousness of reprocussions of pornoraphy seriously. I remember staying overnight in my hubby's friend's apartment in the city. The guy had a million excerise tapes. I thought it was strange, since he was not married and finally asked my hubby about it. I will never forget the gross feeling I got when he said that many percieve it as 'allowed' porn. I wonder where his mind is now... |
| Re: PornographyActually considering the emotional |
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| superFOB |
| 04/14/04 at 04:09:27 |
| [slm] [quote author=Kathy link=board=bro;num=1081710268;start=0#9 date=04/13/04 at 10:54:20]She did support him in his therapy a couple years ago and even went with him, against all shreds of decency. The only Muslim Psch doc in the area blamed her for her hubbies demise. sigh... unfortunately the 'shrink' was not beneficial, because the hubby refused to take advice or do the work involved to get better.[/quote] No surprise there, muslim women are not brought up to act out deviant behavior. I still strongly suggest that the wife take someone knowledgable in the loop. Therapy sessions like these sound a bit too hairy to me. [quote author=Kathy link=board=bro;num=1081710268;start=0#9 date=04/13/04 at 10:54:20]One of her closest friends suggested she get divorced. Bur I am not going to suggest that at this time. There are children involved. Even giving the 'first' divorce may leave psych scars on the kids. And typically, like most immigrant families... they have none here, to support her or him. there is no where for her and the kids to go, if he won't leave, and basically no one for him either.[/quote] Actually considering the emotional and physical burden on the wife, divorce might not be a bad idea after all. Despite its sanctity, marriage is still a contract. I mean she didn't sign up as a life long rehab nurse. The husband seems to have severe psychiatric problems which must be having a nasty effect on the kids already. Kids are not stupid you know, they know that dad is a fruitcake and watches porn. On top of that the husband's family is not here to take up some of the responsibilities! It might be better for her and her kids to be away from the man and let the healthcare system take care of him. Tough, but why should the whole family suffer? Insanity CAN be a ground for separation, so I have heard. And Allah knows best. |
| 04/14/04 at 04:13:13 |
| superFOB |
| Re: Pornography |
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| superFOB |
| 04/15/04 at 03:01:59 |
| [slm] [quote author=Kathy link=board=bro;num=1081710268;start=0#9 date=04/13/04 at 10:54:20]I just hope the brothers out there take the seriousness of reprocussions of pornoraphy seriously.[/quote] Its a complex social problem sister, appealing to common sense is going to achieve little. Here is a nice article from salon, gives a very balanced perspective: http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2004/04/15/filters |
| Re: Pornography |
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| AbdulJalil |
| 04/30/04 at 10:42:49 |
| Assalamu Alaikum there is a fatwa here with advice: http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=104037 Also, check the "Cyber Counselor" section( scroll down, it is at the rightof the page ) they might have advice on this, or you can ask your own question, but it might take time . http://www.islamonline.net |
| 04/30/04 at 10:46:42 |
| AbdulJalil |
| Re: Pornography |
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| superFOB |
| 04/30/04 at 17:37:12 |
| [slm] http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,63280,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_2 Folks, the morale of the story is "don't jump the gun and don't jump to conclusions". |
| Re: Pornography |
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| ahm |
| 05/13/04 at 20:01:43 |
| [slm] The offending products can be eliminated, if she and her husband appear in their own self-made products which the husband can make use of. 1. better than current situation. 2. seeing himself, being the product itself, may finally break his addiction (this is a psych based assumption - man infatuated with certain condition in people, one day he done it to himself (he gave himself the condition) then lost the infatuation. [wlm] |
| Re: Pornography |
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| superFOB |
| 05/13/04 at 20:22:16 |
| [slm] Are you a in the medical profession? I ask this because your post made absolutely no sense to me. |
| Re: Pornography |
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| ahm |
| 05/13/04 at 20:41:11 |
| [slm] LOL. I wanted to avoid well being too explicit so I chose my words carefully. But it happened, the man gave himself the condition and then that's it, he lost all infatuation with the condition, he no longer saw the condition in other people the same way again. I think it's worth a try and certainly not haram as compared to what the husband is doing now. [wlm] |
| Re: Pornography |
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| georger |
| 05/22/04 at 23:19:56 |
| [quote author=superFOB link=board=bro;num=1081710268;start=0#2 date=04/11/04 at 17:36:50][slm]............Since he is clinically addicted to porn, take him to a shrink! Seriously, it is a modern, mostly male disorder and needs to be treated. It will not be easy for the sister to force/beg him to go to the doctor............[/quote] Many people I know of are addicted to something or another. Money/wealth, consumerism (shopping, acquisition), power at work, affluence, popularity......there are a whole spectrum of things a person can end up falling in love with, becoming addicted to and ending up a pathetic mess. I can say all of this from personal experience in the very same topic this thread discusses. It's one thing to know someone who has a problem. It's another thing entirely to convince that person to accept they have a problem, especially if the person has lived with it for so long, it's become as a second skin. Until, say, an alcoholic, admits they have a problem, they often will not accept any help or intervention. They may even actively rebel and put distance between themselves and those who are trying to help them, feeling they are being "picked on". Like a recovering alcoholic would towards booze, I still have lapses - being human and weak - and have learned from the pain what it takes for myself to at least keep trying (quoting Johnny Cash) "to walk the line". It also takes maturity to admit, face and work at this. That cannot be taught, only acquired from pain and experience as God permits. Living in the highly pampered west, it would be helpful if one *could* stay away from anything stimulating and keep constantly one's attention on wholesome topics, like thinking of God. This is nearly impossible to do when loose morals pervade fashion, entertainment, advertising, the internet, the newspapers,........you name it. But (especially western) business often thrive on initiating and maintaining addictions, such as alcohol, gambling, porn, junk food and cigarettes. It's pretty depressing. Suicidal thoughts often enter one's mind, to end the pain of the struggle. And you never ever stop noticing or being *susceptible* to this kind of stuff. It may start in very early childhood (as for myself) and remains life long. And speaking as one born in the west, one has to wonder what kind of morals, heart and freedom this western society enjoys when it is subject to so much temptation and abuse. I've even seen the occasional young woman wearing the head scarf, while walking down the sidewalk wearing VERY tight clothing and high heels - here in the west. One can feel the Testosterone upon this sight. :( But the strength and guidance comes from God alone to see the truth and act appropriately upon one's own emotions. Of late, when I see a woman who is dressed modestly (by western standards)......or even if she is wearing a head scarf, my heart feels warm and glad knowing she is respecting herself, her beauty, not needing to flaunt it out of vanity. The confidence to permit modesty to prevail, and the maturity to know she has to answer to no other human in exercising this virtue - these are very good qualities for a woman to possess, raising her worth to all she comes into contact with. :) |
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