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Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge

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Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge
deenb4dunya
05/18/04 at 17:55:16
Assalamu Alaikum,

Let's see who can answer this question... me needs some assistance...

“Knowledge consists of Ilm shar’ee (Jurisprudent knowledge) and Ilm
Ladunni (Divinely inspired knowledge), or share’ah (jurisprudence) and
haqeeqah (truth). The first is acquired through learning and the second
through closeness to Allah. The first is acquired by the anbia’a and
fuqaha (prophets and jurists), and the second is acquired by the awlia’a
(the loved and chosen ones). The Ilm Ladunni of Al-Khidr was superior to
the shar’ee ilm of Musa, therefore the awlia are better than the anbia’a
(prophets).” Do you agree with this statement? Why?"

???

Wassalamu Alaikum,

Mujahada
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge
Abu_Hamza
05/18/04 at 20:55:54
[slm]

I disagree.  

[quote]Knowledge consists of Ilm shar’ee (Jurisprudent knowledge) and Ilm  
Ladunni (Divinely inspired knowledge), or share’ah (jurisprudence) and  
haqeeqah (truth). The first is acquired through learning and the second  
through closeness to Allah. The first is acquired by the anbia’a and  
fuqaha (prophets and jurists), and the second is acquired by the awlia’a  
(the loved and chosen ones).[/quote]

First, I would change 'ilm shar'ee to 'ilm kasbee (from kasb).  Because 'ilm shar'ee, strictly speaking, has its asl in 'ilm ladunni (think about that :))

Second, it is not true that the anbiyaa' are only endowed with 'ilm kasbee (or 'ilm shar'ee for that matter), or that it is the only kind of 'ilm that they acquire.  Their 'ilm, in fact, is almost always 'ilm ladunni.  That is, it is 'ilm that Allah (swt) endows them with through inspiration.  

The fuqahaa' mostly thrive in 'ilm kasbee, although the true fuqahaa' possess a combination of both 'ilm kasbee and 'ilm ladunnee (and this is the realm of firaasah and baseerah of a scholar).

As for the awliyaa', they also acquire both 'ilm kasbee/shar'ee and 'ilm ladunnee.  Ibn Taimiyyah says that wilayah is conditional upon following the Prophet [saw] both outwardly and inwardly.  And one cannot follow the Prophet [saw] outwardly without studying his life and his Sunnah.  That is 'ilm kasbee/shar'ee.  And we know from the hadith Qudsi that those who are closest to Allah (swt), Allah becomes the eye with which they see, the ear with which they hear, the feet with which they walk, and the hand with which they strike.  That is, He (swt) endows them with 'ilm ladunnee so that they only see what He is pleased with, hear what He is pleased with, etc.

There's a lot of stuff out there about this.  I suggest that you don't get into it :)  But if you are already into it, then please read Ibn Taimiyyah's book "The Friends of Allah & The Friends of Shaytaan."

Wallahu ta'ala a'lam.

P.S. I intentionally reserved commenting on al-Khidr.  He is an 'abd of Allah about whom we do not know much, a person concerning whom our 'ulemaa held various opinions, and thus I - a layman - am not capable of formulating any strong opinion regarding him.
05/18/04 at 20:56:24
Abu_Hamza
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge
humble_muslim
05/21/04 at 14:22:20
AA

Interesting*  One quick question, can an awliya change the halal to haram or vice-versa?
NS
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge
Abu_Hamza
05/21/04 at 15:53:17
[slm]

No, they cannot.
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge
sal
05/22/04 at 15:01:20
[slm]
what ever the  standard of  a WALI  achieves  it still wont be  better than the lowest NABI (PROPHET)

For  example, when describing ABUBAKER AL SADEEGH  ,he  is  described as  the  best person ever  existed after the ANBIYAH
and  i dont think there is WALI that can be as  ABUBKAR AL  SADEEGH .therefore  I Think  this  shows AWLIYAAH Can't be  better  than ANBIYAH

It  is said while walking over  the  SIRAT, the  hell  says would  you please  run  fast ABUBKAR !!!! not  to put  off  my  fire .this  is  a  proof how  high  his standard  is However   he  is still   treated  as a  normal  person  to  go  move  over the  SIRAT (the  brige we will  pass  over )as  one  of  the  steps  one  has  to  pass  through  toward  jannah  or  hell
but the ANBIYAH wont  pass througth this  stages  
This  is  i think  another  proof

The  story  of  khadir  is exclusive  case  to  teach MUSA when  he  asked ALLAH  if there  is any  one who  knows  better  than  him ?
Then ALLAH SHOWED  him  that miracles  of KHADER just  for  that particular  incident  but there  are not any thing we are  told  khider  knows  in advance  except  those  three  things

When we mention a name of  any  prophet  it  is  supposed to  say PBUH
whereas  that is  not allowed to  say  for  the AWLIYAH

There are  many things  that  proof this any way but i think it  is  better  not  to  make  such  comparison   to  be  in the  safe side even  among the  ANBIYAA who  is  better  than  who? beacsue we  dont  know  except who we are  told  (MOHAMMED) [saw] as  the  only SHAFI'E

May ALLAH  TAKE  US  TO WHERE  THE  ANBIYA ARE







Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge
sal
05/22/04 at 15:06:49
[quote]Interesting.  One quick question, can an awliya change the halal to haram or vice-versa?[/quote]
NOOOOOOOOOOOO  THEY  CAN NOT

ONLY ALLAH  CAN  DO  THAT NOT  HIS  SLAVES  
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge
kashifs
05/24/04 at 23:17:46
Assalamua'alaikum,  ???

I was taught that Islam is a simple faith, something a child(in their innocence) could easily accept and follow. You guys are talking(may I hint debating) on topic back and forth that seem to be opinions(fatwas) not concrete answers.

I recall Ayath in Qu'ran along lines of parable that 'The soul is like a drop of water, bad deebs add specks of dust to it, and good Deeds cleanse it.'

If I may suggest we need to focus on doing good Deeds rather topics that seem to be riddles and opinions with no conclusion. Pardon my insolence. Wassalam  ;-)

That is my humble opinion on this challenge topic  ;D


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