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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge |
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deenb4dunya |
05/18/04 at 17:55:16 |
Assalamu Alaikum, Let's see who can answer this question... me needs some assistance... “Knowledge consists of Ilm shar’ee (Jurisprudent knowledge) and Ilm Ladunni (Divinely inspired knowledge), or share’ah (jurisprudence) and haqeeqah (truth). The first is acquired through learning and the second through closeness to Allah. The first is acquired by the anbia’a and fuqaha (prophets and jurists), and the second is acquired by the awlia’a (the loved and chosen ones). The Ilm Ladunni of Al-Khidr was superior to the shar’ee ilm of Musa, therefore the awlia are better than the anbia’a (prophets).” Do you agree with this statement? Why?" ??? Wassalamu Alaikum, Mujahada |
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge |
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Abu_Hamza |
05/18/04 at 20:55:54 |
[slm] I disagree. [quote]Knowledge consists of Ilm shar’ee (Jurisprudent knowledge) and Ilm Ladunni (Divinely inspired knowledge), or share’ah (jurisprudence) and haqeeqah (truth). The first is acquired through learning and the second through closeness to Allah. The first is acquired by the anbia’a and fuqaha (prophets and jurists), and the second is acquired by the awlia’a (the loved and chosen ones).[/quote] First, I would change 'ilm shar'ee to 'ilm kasbee (from kasb). Because 'ilm shar'ee, strictly speaking, has its asl in 'ilm ladunni (think about that :)) Second, it is not true that the anbiyaa' are only endowed with 'ilm kasbee (or 'ilm shar'ee for that matter), or that it is the only kind of 'ilm that they acquire. Their 'ilm, in fact, is almost always 'ilm ladunni. That is, it is 'ilm that Allah (swt) endows them with through inspiration. The fuqahaa' mostly thrive in 'ilm kasbee, although the true fuqahaa' possess a combination of both 'ilm kasbee and 'ilm ladunnee (and this is the realm of firaasah and baseerah of a scholar). As for the awliyaa', they also acquire both 'ilm kasbee/shar'ee and 'ilm ladunnee. Ibn Taimiyyah says that wilayah is conditional upon following the Prophet [saw] both outwardly and inwardly. And one cannot follow the Prophet [saw] outwardly without studying his life and his Sunnah. That is 'ilm kasbee/shar'ee. And we know from the hadith Qudsi that those who are closest to Allah (swt), Allah becomes the eye with which they see, the ear with which they hear, the feet with which they walk, and the hand with which they strike. That is, He (swt) endows them with 'ilm ladunnee so that they only see what He is pleased with, hear what He is pleased with, etc. There's a lot of stuff out there about this. I suggest that you don't get into it :) But if you are already into it, then please read Ibn Taimiyyah's book "The Friends of Allah & The Friends of Shaytaan." Wallahu ta'ala a'lam. P.S. I intentionally reserved commenting on al-Khidr. He is an 'abd of Allah about whom we do not know much, a person concerning whom our 'ulemaa held various opinions, and thus I - a layman - am not capable of formulating any strong opinion regarding him. |
05/18/04 at 20:56:24 |
Abu_Hamza |
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge |
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humble_muslim |
05/21/04 at 14:22:20 |
AA Interesting* One quick question, can an awliya change the halal to haram or vice-versa? |
NS |
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge |
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Abu_Hamza |
05/21/04 at 15:53:17 |
[slm] No, they cannot. |
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge |
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sal |
05/22/04 at 15:01:20 |
[slm] what ever the standard of a WALI achieves it still wont be better than the lowest NABI (PROPHET) For example, when describing ABUBAKER AL SADEEGH ,he is described as the best person ever existed after the ANBIYAH and i dont think there is WALI that can be as ABUBKAR AL SADEEGH .therefore I Think this shows AWLIYAAH Can't be better than ANBIYAH It is said while walking over the SIRAT, the hell says would you please run fast ABUBKAR !!!! not to put off my fire .this is a proof how high his standard is However he is still treated as a normal person to go move over the SIRAT (the brige we will pass over )as one of the steps one has to pass through toward jannah or hell but the ANBIYAH wont pass througth this stages This is i think another proof The story of khadir is exclusive case to teach MUSA when he asked ALLAH if there is any one who knows better than him ? Then ALLAH SHOWED him that miracles of KHADER just for that particular incident but there are not any thing we are told khider knows in advance except those three things When we mention a name of any prophet it is supposed to say PBUH whereas that is not allowed to say for the AWLIYAH There are many things that proof this any way but i think it is better not to make such comparison to be in the safe side even among the ANBIYAA who is better than who? beacsue we dont know except who we are told (MOHAMMED) [saw] as the only SHAFI'E May ALLAH TAKE US TO WHERE THE ANBIYA ARE |
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge |
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sal |
05/22/04 at 15:06:49 |
[quote]Interesting. One quick question, can an awliya change the halal to haram or vice-versa?[/quote] NOOOOOOOOOOOO THEY CAN NOT ONLY ALLAH CAN DO THAT NOT HIS SLAVES |
Re: Anbiyaa' VS. Awliyaa' Challenge |
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kashifs |
05/24/04 at 23:17:46 |
Assalamua'alaikum, ??? I was taught that Islam is a simple faith, something a child(in their innocence) could easily accept and follow. You guys are talking(may I hint debating) on topic back and forth that seem to be opinions(fatwas) not concrete answers. I recall Ayath in Qu'ran along lines of parable that 'The soul is like a drop of water, bad deebs add specks of dust to it, and good Deeds cleanse it.' If I may suggest we need to focus on doing good Deeds rather topics that seem to be riddles and opinions with no conclusion. Pardon my insolence. Wassalam ;-) That is my humble opinion on this challenge topic ;D |
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