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| Sis Wants to Remove a Bro during prayer |
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| Kathy |
| 08/24/04 at 23:30:37 |
| [slm] I was reading the topic in the UCC "Muslim woman "dares" to pray in main prayer hall." As i read the fatwas abut when and if women can lead prayer, I remembered an incident that I never resolved. perhaps some one knows the answer.... I was at a friend's (non-Muslim) home and prayers came in. Her Muslim teenage son led prayers. I had watched him a long time ago pray, and it wasn't until in the middle of the first Al-Fatihah, that I remembered and was reminded how poorely he prayed. Really poorely... With out a doubt I could pray much better, ... What do you do in this case? Do you stop and reshuffle? Can you imagine the embarrassment of the teenager? Do you let him continue? Do you constantly correct him... and as a women who should clap or say Allahu Akbar... how would that correct?... which of course would make him so self conscious that he wouldn't even remember his own name, much more than an ayat? The other boys praying were not any better. My son tho, was in line and could lead prayers. His dad came home in the middle of prayers and was so gleeful his son was leading. Couldn't he hear how his son was doing? And the son, so on the edge with his Islam and deen, most likely got a nice acknowledgement from a very critical father. Yoi... I did not know what to do. We are responsible for prayers and for our 'leaders.' So next time, when I am there for prayers.... what would you do? And if you are in line and praying and the one leading should not be... what do you do? Please base your answer with the fact in mind of a bro leading and a sis following. |
| Re: Sis Wants to Remove a Bro during prayer |
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| jannah |
| 08/25/04 at 00:20:19 |
| [wlm] Kathy if there isn't anyone really qualified to lead the prayers why doesn't everyone just pray on their own? Or just the sisters have their own jama3' with a sister who is qualified to lead? and the teenage boys can pray on their own? (i know its avoidance ::) there must be some fiqhi rules to this tho i guess |
| Re: Sis Wants to Remove a Bro during prayer |
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| bhaloo |
| 08/25/04 at 01:42:20 |
| [slm] For next time you know who is more qualified and has more knowledge, it appears to be your son, so insha'Allah he should lead. Here is a similiar question asked at islam-qa.com, perhaps you asked it? ??? Question : can my 7yr old lead me in salaah? can i lead him in salaah being his mother? note:he learnt how to pray by copying me and following me in salaah Answer : Praise be to Allaah. It is OK for a boy who understands the prayer to lead others in prayer, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “People should be led in prayer by the one who knows the most Qur’aan among them.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Masaajid wa Mawaadi’ al-Salaah, 1078). And it was narrated in Saheeh al-Bukhaari that ‘Amr ibn Salamah al-Jarami said: “My father came from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said that he had heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ‘When the time for prayer comes, let the one among you who knows the most Qur’aan lead you in prayer.’ They looked and they did not find anyone who knew more Qur’aan than me, so they made me lead them in prayer, and I was a boy of six or seven years.” (al-Maghaazi, 3963. See Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 7/389-390) The evidence to be found in the hadeeth is that these Sahaabah asked ‘Amr ibn Salamah to lead them in prayer when he was six or seven years old. This indicates that a boy who has reached the age of discernment can lead the prayers. If that were not permitted, there would have been Revelation to say that it was not allowed. (Ahkaam al-Imaamah wa’l-I’timaam fi’l-Salaah by ‘Abd al-Muhsin al-Muneef). If your son fulfils all the conditions and obligations of the prayer, then there is nothing wrong with him leading you. With regard to a woman leading a boy in prayer, this is not permissible, because he comes under the same rulings as a man. What is permitted is for a woman to lead other women in prayer, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded Umm Waraqah bint ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Nawfal to lead the members of her household – i.e., the women – in prayer. (Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Salaah, Imaamat al-Nisaa’, 500, Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Abi Dawood, 553). Islam Q&A Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com) |
| Re: Sis Wants to Remove a Bro during prayer |
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| Trustworthy |
| 08/25/04 at 03:27:23 |
| [slm]... Whoever knows how to pray should lead. If your son was in the room let him lead. When you return to this boy's home, have your son tell that boy that he does not know how to lead prayer well. Or if your son is much younger then he is, you tell his parents that their boy needs better practice before he can lead prayer. To let someone who does not know how to lead prayer lead a group of people in prayer, well, who's sinning who? Everybody. You should not embarass the boy in public. If this happens again, let the boy finish, then you pray again, then let him know he did the prayer wrong and correct him to have him pray again correctly. Many du'as and Allah (SWT) bless... Ma-assalaamah.... |
| Re: Sis Wants to Remove a Bro during prayer |
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| MIT |
| 08/25/04 at 09:27:25 |
| assalaamu alaikum Yeah, my vote would also be to get your son to lead. Except for one thing - you shouldn't really lead in the house of another person except with permission. Would they be ok allowing your son to lead? Or would they be offended by the request? At the same time, the issue of prayer is vitally important, and you would be doing both yourself and them a favour by asking them to have their son polish up his prayer/recitation. I mean, if the guy isn't fit to lead a jamaah, what about the state of his own prayer? You can't let someone just carry on in that state if you care for them. I would make the intention of advising the mother and/or son about the deficiencies in the salaah of the son, and make du'a beforehand that Allah opens their heart so that they accept the advice gracefully. |
| NS |
| Re: Sis Wants to Remove a Bro during prayer |
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| onemuslimgirl |
| 08/25/04 at 19:51:34 |
| asalam alakum, don't tell the young boy that he is a terrible leader in salah. this can cause him heartbrake, and might push him away from prayer. Instead, the next time you are there, have your son lead by saying, "mashAllah we had so and so lead last time, so this time how about (insert ur son's name here) leads this time". than after prayers, tell ur son which things in his prayer he did well. just choose two or three points that u feel the young boy needs to know and improve on. this way u will have said some positive things to ur son, and at the same time taught the young boy two or three things to improve in his salaah. |
| Re: Sis Wants to Remove a Bro during prayer |
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| sal |
| 08/27/04 at 00:40:54 |
| [slm] FIRST OF ALL ,ASALAMU ALEIKUM AND HOW IS EVERYBODY? :) [quote]I was at a friend's (non-Muslim) home and prayers came in. Her Muslim teenage son led prayers[/quote] so,If the incident has taken place in this very exceptional circumstance (i..e.the mother is non Muslem and she has been there )in this case, I think it is difficult to seek what is supposed to be done ( chosing the better imam)infront of her.Removing him from leading prayer gives bad impression to the mother how difficult this religion is ,and by this it is like warning her not to join Islam unless she is very perfect. Attracting her to this religion is more important than seeking for a correct and perfectly read Quraan in such situation But if you don’t feel comfortable, it is better not to be there at the time of salat so that he will lead the lesser than him and this way he is the best amongst his group and their salat is correct But as long as you have observed such errors then you have put yourself in the liability of teaching him .and you should to,. You can also invite them to your home for the purpose of attending a prayer time but without informing them they will be there for prayer.let the prayer time come unintentionally where your son can lead and this, way if he is better he will be chosen as imam when you are with them, so your son will take this place routinely But so far I think we are talking about in a situation where a mosque is not close or available except if there is a mosque near to this place then let the boys go to the mosque and you (female pray at home ) [wlm] |
| 08/27/04 at 00:42:36 |
| sal |
| Re: Sis Wants to Remove a Bro during prayer |
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| Shahida |
| 08/27/04 at 06:39:07 |
| [slm] Momma Mod: what do you mean by praying "poorly"? I don't understand... Poor recitation of Quraan? Not knowing the movements of Salaah? Not giving enough time for each posture? Is there anything you can do/suggest that will help him get better at leading prayers? Salam Shahida :-) |
| Re: Sis Wants to Remove a Bro during prayer |
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| muslimah853 |
| 08/27/04 at 22:21:01 |
| [slm] If he is doing something that renders the salat invalid, I would probably just pray along with him and then quietly repeat my salah so that there is no public embarassment, no big hairy public deal to make people defensive and what not. To avoid fitnah, I would repeat my salat quietly without letting anyone know. That said, however, if there is a more sensitive time, place, and manner to advise the young man, or his parents about this and to help him along with it, I would also try to accomplish that. But in the meantime I would simply repeat my prayer. |
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