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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| "progressives" |
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| se7en |
| 10/21/04 at 14:57:50 |
| as salaamu alaykum, is it just me or is there a serious increase of these people and their rhetoric, "interpreting" Islam into non-existence, and badmouthing any one or thing that doesn't fit into their politically correct, secularly shaped world view? it's troubling. to a certain extent, it's an understandable response to a type of Islam that is popularly being practiced, stifling any room for expression or a fresh outlook. however, these two parties are both extremes, and I always believed that the vast majority of Muslims found themselves at a happy medium. However I am getting increasingly anxious that perhaps, Muslims like us -- who seek to follow the deen in it's literal form while at the same time understanding the scope for differences of opinion and expression *within* the bounds of shari'ah, are become a minority and the vast majority of people out there are on the ends of the spectrum, and increasingly on the "liberal" (for lack of a better word) end. Is it the unfolding events of late that are making it easier to embrace this type of ideology? that would make sense, but wouldn't it be now more than ever that we need a reawakening of understanding the foundational texts of Islam? it seems like there are a lot of people out there (read: the internet) espousing all sorts of nonsensical and largely ignorant ideas. and these people are sometimes taken seriously in academic circles here in the US. it makes me so mad. examples of this type of behavior: -- questioning the authenticity of certain hadeeth because their content is something we don't like. (in some cases completely dismantling the science of ulumul hadeeth in order to say that a certain text is inauthentic.) -- "interpreting" ayaat of the Qur'an in ways that are not befitting of it, and in a way that is actually impossible in the Arabic language. -- taking well established norms of the deen that are rooted in the wahiy of Allah and altering them to fit what's politically correct in the US at this time. (the prohibition of alcohol; homosexuality; the requirement of hijab; segregation of sexes). at one time these types of beliefs in the Muslim community were aberrations but now it seems like it's becoming something more accepted? etc. it's gotten to the extent that anything that even SEEMS related to this type of attitude turns me off completely and I hesitate to say anything that may be in agreement with them. For example, being critical of Saudi Arabia's policies towards women. While I may hold the same opinion as such people on the issue I hold my tongue. We are living in a time where such people are just blazing our tradition and soon I'm scared we'll be left with nothing but ashes and a vague sense of 'Muslim-ness'. the hadeeth that teaches us that in times closer to the day of judgement the only remnants of Islam left will be those saying 'la ilaaha illa Allah', saying that their grandparents had said such -- these times seem to be looming closer. may Allah protect us. what do you guys think?? |
| 10/21/04 at 14:59:25 |
| se7en |
| Re: "progressives" |
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| bhaloo |
| 10/25/04 at 01:17:47 |
| [slm] [quote author=se7en link=board=kabob;num=1098381470;start=0#0 date=10/21/04 at 14:57:50]what do you guys think?? [/quote] Its a VERY SERIOUS problem and its been a serious problem for a very long time, especially in recent times. And its mainly because a lot of good Muslims are just sitting by and doing nothing. We as Muslims have to speak up and say the truth, and correct these ignorants and stop them from spreading their falsehood. Because if we don't, their ignorance is just going to spread and spread to others. I firmly believe this is a test from Allah (SWT), for us to use the correct knowledge that we have to educate these people, insha'Allah. My first reaction usually when I read their garbage is one of disgust and >:( >:( >:(. I usually have to calm myself down and consider what to say and way the benefits vs. harms of how/when I say something when responding to these people. |
| Re: "progressives" |
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| MIT |
| 10/25/04 at 05:17:30 |
| assalaamu alaikum The intellectual attack on orthodox Islam is probably THE most serious issue facing Muslims in the West. There are billions of dollars being pumped into spreading liberal Islam. Did any of you read the RAND Corporations suggestions on how to influence Islam http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1716/MR1716.sum.pdf Aside from containing some untruths about practising Muslims, these are not mere suggestions that they're issuing, but have been actioned for over a decade now, and only very few Muslims of influence in the West have been addressing them. It requires intelligent and mature Muslims in the West to sit down and work together to refute the ideas of this new brand of Islam: American/Western Islam. |
| NS |
| Re: "progressives" |
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| tq |
| 10/25/04 at 08:52:27 |
| Assalamo elikuim So true Sr.Seven, in the last two years or so I have met so many muslims with their own interpretation of Quran and ofcourse 98% of them dont even believe in Hadiths :(. And I am not talking about people who are confused or never practised deen in their life. MOst of them have been Muslims(praying five times a day, fasting etc) and have lived and raised in a Muslim majority country . And ofcourse most of them are educated adn since they are, they think they can understand and interprete Quran much better than say Moulana Moududi! Actually one of them said that because of advancement in science adn technology we now have access to more information then the four Imam therefore we can now better understand Quran adn dont have to rely on anybody. Also they interpreted the ayah paraphrasing "that Quran is huda-lil-Nas(sp)" i.e guidance for mankind not just for scholars therefore who ever reads it will understand it adn no need for scholar or sheikh (actually they are the ones who take everything and I mean everything in Quran literally i.e. according to them Rasul Allah can be anyone i.e. any one who can understand adn convey the message, they translate Torah adn injeel as law adn that there is only one book not four adn that is Quran, adn it is called sometimes by other four names. !) Br. Bhaloo sometimes there is nt much you can do about it. I dont know if you guys remember me asking questions how to explain/defend the validaty(sp) hadith last year or so, because some of our very close friends have gone in this direction. Me and my husband took one of their "sort of leader" to our local imam/scholar(Mashallah he is very knowledgeable and humble). But instead of even thinking about, pondering about what the scholar was saying, they simply argued with him and when they couldnt answer some of his questions, they just sat quietly and after the meeting said about the Imam that he was trying to "show off ". Ofcourse they are not that close to us any more :) , but hte other couple and us now simply avoid any topic even closely related to hadith/sunnah. It is pretty sad but I guess there isnt much one can do about it. I really worry about the Muslim kids specially my own and my neices and nephews, not about them abandoning the deen (Alhamdullah) but more about going in the wrong direction. My main dua after every prayer adn before breaking the fast is to pray for their taqwa (and ofcourse mine also:) ) Wasalam tq |
| Re: "progressives" |
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| Ruqayyah |
| 10/25/04 at 13:28:57 |
| salam:) i completely agree, esp after reading some people's opinions on naseeb, it's like whaaa???? scary scary stuff. when i hear people say they don't need all of the research that scholars have been doing for centuries and can interpret things on their own.....it's like now a days w/ all the advertising that pharmaceutical companies are doing w/ medications- patients think they can just read some stuff online and diagnose themselves. true it's helpful and you can learn a lot but people go to school for that stuff for a reason. same as you trying to fix your car from a how to book instead of going to a knowledgable person w/ experience. |
| Re: "progressives" |
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| Mossy |
| 10/25/04 at 14:14:16 |
| http://living-tradition.blogspot.com/ |
| Re: "progressives" |
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| lucid9 |
| 10/27/04 at 00:17:29 |
| [slm] please be careful not to as they say "throw the baby out with the bathwater." there are extremists like our former imam in washington state who said that the hadith are not reliable. there are other very orthodox people who I would also call extremists who take it as a point of aqeedah (an issue of islamic belief) that all the sahih hadith are protected by Allah and have virtually the same unalterable status as the quran. the problem is the two extremes are very far apart and polarizes the community. the hadith are the foundation of islam -- but they are not the quran and not in the lagh mahfuz. and then their is the problem of islamic scholarship. the scholars of today pale in comparison to the scholars of yesteryear. just come to indopakland or wherever and you will weep in despair. Muslim standards are not up to scratch and that is why the tradtional orthodoxy have not been able to keep up with everything -- and that is why you have the growth of non-orthodox self styled hadith rejecting folk -- because to these folks the orthodoxy seem like their are from another planet... in any case: did anybody read the book "progressive muslims" edited by khaled abou fadl (i think). i generally liked it. But for example he goes too far in shocking people like when appears on the web with an islamic book in one hand and his pet dog in the other in an article where he argues that traditional muslim attitudes toward animals are culturally based. |
| Re: "progressives" |
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| Mossy |
| 10/27/04 at 09:07:09 |
| Progressive Muslims was edited by Omid Safi and has an essay by Khaled Abou el Fadl. If you read his Speaking in God's name or Conference of Books, you'll probably get a better idea of why he takes positions like that.. Authorative vs authoritarian? Diversity vs homegeneity? Eh, some interesting points raised, from the position of re-examination of existing jurisprudence as opposed to abandonment of current praxis in preference to a new amalgamated fiqh. |
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