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Praying in jama'a
Ember
10/27/04 at 13:22:36
[slm] When you pray in Jama'a I have been taught that when the Imam recites the fathiha you listen and then when he is done you quickly repeat it under your breath. Is this right? Or do you just listen with the exception of the raka'as where he does not recite it out loud?

Re: Praying in jama'a
timbuktu
10/27/04 at 21:28:44
[slm] again there is a difference of opinion on this. The Hanafis think that the Imam's recitation of al-Fatiha is sufficient for the muqtadi (the follower in the congregation). However, the others think that the Sahih AHadeeth on this subject require everyone to recite the Fatiha irrespective of whether one hears the Imam reciting it aloud or not. Once in Fajr the qira`at became difficult for the prophet [saw]. He asked the Sahaba (ra) if they were also reciting the Quran with him. They answered in the affirmative. Then the prophet [saw] said: "don't do that (recitation with the Imam), but do recite the Fatiha, because without it the Salah isn't Salah." --- abu Daood, Tirmidhi, Nisai reported abu Huraira (ra): The prophet [saw] said (three times) something like: that if someone said the Salah without Fatiha, his Salah is incomplete. abu Huraira was asked: "We also say our prayers behind the Imam. What should be do then? "He answered: "Then you should say the Fatiha quietly in your heart." ________________________ I think the correct way is for the Imam to provide enough time before saying the Fatiha, or between the Fatiha and the recitation of other verses for the muqtadi to say the Fatiha himself. Alternatively, the Imam can provide enough interval between the verses of the Fatiha for the muqtadi to repeat it after him. A third way is the one you describe, of saying the Fatiha when the Imam is reciting the other Quran verses. This becomes necessary at times, because if one is saying the Salah behind a Hanafi Imam, he will likely go fast, and one will not have enough time. The Muslims of the Indo-Pak subcontinent (and Afghanistan and Bangladesh) mostly follow the Hanafi fiqh, hence I have difficulty because most of the Imams I have to say Salah with are Hanafis. I tend to say the Fatiha quickly so as to catch up with them, but your way is the correct way. _________________________ I found an excellent discussion on the subject of three quick or simultaneous divorces in a tafseer called "Tyyaseer ul Quran" by Abdur Rehman Keilani, but it is in Urdu, and I am not sure if I can undertake a translation of the relevant pages. Maybe someday I will try. ma`assalama
11/03/04 at 06:01:08
timbuktu

Re: Praying in jama'a
Ember
10/28/04 at 10:37:39
[slm] Jazaka Allah for this reply. Big help. Been thinking of this for a while Salaams

Re: Praying in jama'a
Ali_Said
10/29/04 at 04:16:15
At jummah I've noticed some brothers remain sitting after prayer and lean over as to rest their forearms on their thighs.  What are they doing?  Dhikr?  Is it acceptable to just get up and leave?   Also, I understand that one should not walk in forward of someone who is praying.  What is the best way to leave the line after prayers when others behind are performing additional prayers or dhikr? Salaam.

Re: Praying in jama'a
Ember
10/29/04 at 13:28:10
[slm] I don't know about the leaning over but as for walking out, I usually try to leave from a side where there is no one praying close behind. Sometimes you can't avoind it but I try not to step on their place of sujuud on the floor, which is possible.

Re: Praying in jama'a
timbuktu
10/31/04 at 08:35:45
[slm] [quote author=Ali_Said link=board=lighthouse;num=1098894157;start=0#3 date=10/29/04 at 04:16:15]At jummah I've noticed some brothers remain sitting after prayer and lean over as to rest their forearms on their thighs.  What are they doing?  Dhikr?  Is it acceptable to just get up and leave?  [/quote] Yes, they are probably doing dhikr, and at this time it is acceptable to get up and leave. Sometimes they may have started nawafil while in the sitting position, and may have assumed this posture as a "going into ruku". In that case try to avoid crossing them. [quote]Also, I understand that one should not walk in forward of someone who is praying.  What is the best way to leave the line after prayers when others behind are performing additional prayers or dhikr? Salaam.[/quote] If I pray in a place where I know I want to leave early, but will have difficulty because of others, I try to sit in the back, and close to the isee where there is an opening. If not possible, I stand up and wait until I can identify an exit route where such a crossing does not occur.
11/03/04 at 06:04:50
timbuktu

Re: Praying in jama'a
Shahida
11/03/04 at 00:49:34
[slm] Ok, ok, so *that's* what they are doing? Praying Nawafil while sitting? But why? Why not get up and pry standing if you are able to? where does this come from? I saw this girl in the mosque do this, and I *had* to stare, it was something I had never seen or heard of before...the neighbour's 6 year old daughter, also saw her and commented that it could be one of 2 things: -either she is making up for the prayers she missed when she was as tall as she is now sitting down  ;D -or she's praying ahead of time for when she is old and cannot stand and pray anymore  ;) Kids, mashaAllah:) JazakAllah Uncle Timbuktu for that info. You cleared up a mystery;) Salam Shahida :-)

Re: Praying in jama'a
timbuktu
11/03/04 at 05:09:09
[slm] yes, kids, mashaAllah. The kid should say this to le lady in question. Maybe she sees the light. They should indeed try to pray in the standing position, but while some may be genuinely tired, others do so out of ignorance. Here is where my theory of jahillyya comes in. A child, or a grown-up person, sees an old man with gout pray in the sitting position. He assumes this is the normal way to pray. He doesn't consult the sheikhs, or the books, he just prays the way he has seen. Or if he consults the sheikhs, it is one of the neem-mullahs who haven't actually studied the Hadiths, but only their pop Islam books of not even a tertiary nature. Or the sheikh may have studied the books from the standpoint of the fiqh he is following. Sometimes they say even the Sunnah while sitting, although at least they try to say the fard in the standing position. Still, they are Muslims, and need gently to be brought to the true spirit and practice of the deen.
11/03/04 at 06:29:45
timbuktu

Re: Praying in jama'a
eleanor
11/03/04 at 08:02:14
[slm] I have heard, repeat just heard, that the Prophet would sometimes pray the 2 sunnah after Maghrib while still sitting and some other times he would pray nafil or sunnah prayers while still sitting/kneeling, without any obvious reason. So that is why it is ok to do it this way sometimes. Random sometimes. Don't know what the basis/background really is though. wasalaam eleanor Ps I would agree that if they are leaning forward over their thighs they are more than likely praying. If they were doing dhikr they wouldn't be leaning, only their head is bowed.

Re: Praying in jama'a
timbuktu
11/04/04 at 04:54:40
[slm] jazakallahi kheiran, sis eleanor In every move by the prophet [saw] there is rehmah for us. When the prophet [saw] got older, his body became heavier, and he probably became slower in movement. Ummul Mumineen Aisha (ra) reports something like the prophet raced with her and got ahead although Aisha (ra) was younger. Then when they got older, they raced again, and Aisha (ra) got ahead. The prophet [saw] joked with her that this evens things out between them. :) This could be the reason for the prophet [saw] saying the Salah while sitting. Or this could have been a practical example of the validity of praying in this position. At times I have said Salah while sitting, and I am sure if I really made the effort, I could have stood up and prayed in the standing position. We should have husni zan (think that the person we are talking about has a good and valid reason for doing what he/she is doing), as long as it is not one of the forbidden acts. And if we see people doing something that doesn't looks right to us, we should remind the person in a manner that retains that person's dignity. Hasan and Hussain (ra), the two grandsons of the prophet [saw] from Fatima (ra) and Ali (ra), saw an old man make wuddu in an incorrect manner. They wanted to correct him but in an ahsan (excellent) way. So they want up to him and asked him to check if they knew how to make wuddu, and correct their mistakes. First Hasan (ra) made it, and the old man watched. Then Hussain (ra) made it and the old man watched. He realised his mistakes in wudu and correceted himself. Subhanallah, what a lesson in there for us! may Allah (swt) forgive me and all of us for being crude, and repelling others from Islam through our arrogance or insensitivity. As one gets older, or one is weak after an illness, or after tiring work, or an affliction, the motions in the Salah may become difficult. So, whoever is making Salah in the sitting position or with a leg extended, or some other posture that doesn't seem right to us, shouldn't be thought of as lazy. We know that Salah is so obligatory that even if one becomes an invalid, one has to say it, even if only the eyelashes can be moved! And if we see a wrong way of doing things, we should figure out a method to ascertain what the matter is, and to bring the correct manner to the knowledge of that person without hurting his feelings.

Re: Praying in jama'a
Shahida
11/04/04 at 05:30:44
[slm] Uncle Timbuktu:) MashaAllah, what you write always makes so much sense to me!  :-* May Allah reward you with only good!   This girl is perfectly healthy mashaAllah!  She comes into the masjid, prays on her own, and doesnt join us for the Esha, but stands for the Taraweeh, altho I cannot say that she stands in line, or shoulder to shoulder with anyone (but I am not getting into that)...my point being, she is young, healthy, not tired when she sits and prays. I thought what she was doing was very interesting, I think I have seen someone do that before, but didnt know what they were doing...thanks for clearing things up. Sis Eleanor, I will do some research on this after my exams inshAllah. Would be very interesting to know, inshaAllah. Salam to all Shahida :-)

Re: Praying in jama'a
timbuktu
11/04/04 at 05:47:36
[slm] [quote author=Shahida link=board=lighthouse;num=1098894157;start=10#10 date=11/04/04 at 05:30:44] ........ This girl is perfectly healthy mashaAllah!  ....... prays on her own, and doesnt join us for the Esha, but stands for the Taraweeh, altho I cannot say that she stands in line, or shoulder to shoulder with anyone (but I am not getting into that)...my point being, she is young, healthy, not tired when she sits and prays. ........ I have seen someone do that before [/quote] As I said, many of us simply copy what we have seen our elders do. Or we take it easy when we shouldn't. What this girl needs to know is that she is only getting half the thawab while praying in the sitting position. Or that she can get 27 times the thawaab if she prays with jama`3ah. Make friends with her. Don't judge her. Gradually introduce her to authentic Islamic sites, or present her with sme simple books that explain these things. Insha`Allah all will be well, and you will gain merits.
11/04/04 at 05:50:06
timbuktu
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