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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Catholic vs Muslim views on sacrifice of Ismail. |
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| Ember |
| 11/23/04 at 12:13:15 |
| [slm] One of my friends was telling me that the Catholic doctrines state that it was Isac and not Ismail who was offered as sacrifice by Ibrahim. I thought that this might be an error on her part because I did not think that we had many disagreements about Ibrahim with them, except for their thought that Hajara was not a "wife" etc Any ideas? |
| Re: Catholic vs Muslim views on sacrifice of Ismai |
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| Milaya |
| 11/30/04 at 03:19:06 |
| [wlm] sis Ember, Nope, it's not an error. I mean true that they Christians believe it was Isaac. |
| Re: Catholic vs Muslim views on sacrifice of Ismai |
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| Kathy |
| 12/01/04 at 09:17:28 |
| [slm] Catholics believe it to be Issac that was almost sacrificed. Once I had to do a talk about this and here is some info I presented them, (no one ever got back to me saying this was in error): Isaac or Ismael? 1. Hagar and Abraham were wife and husband. Genesis 16:3 2. Ismael was the first born son. Abraham was 86 when Ismael was born and 100 when Isaac was born Genesis 16:16, 21:5. When Isaac was about 2, Ishmael was making fun of him at a celebration. Genesis 21:8-10. 3. The Covenant and Household Circumcision was with Ismael. Abraham was 99 years old, therefore Isaac was not born yet. Genesis 17: 24-27. 4. Isaac was circumcised a year later. Genesis 21:4-5 5. Both sons are recognized heirs by law. Genesis 15:4, Deuteronomy 21:15-17 6. Ishmael will have many descendants. Genesis 16:10, 17:20, 21:13, 21:18. Areas of concern: God said “Take your son, your only son Isaac...” Genesis 22:2 Is Ishmael a teenager or a small child? Genesis 16:16, 21:5, 21:8-10. Hagar puts the child/baby on her back. Genesis 21:14 Genesis 15:4And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 16:3And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 16:16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 17: 24-27 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 17:25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 17:26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. 17:27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him. 21:4And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him. 21:5 And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him. 21:8 And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed. 21:14And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba. 21:18. Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest,... Deuteronomy 21:15-17 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: 21:16Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: 21:17 But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his. |
| Re: Catholic vs Muslim views on sacrifice of Ismai |
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| Ember |
| 12/01/04 at 12:26:19 |
| [slm] So where does it say that Isac was taken to be sacrificed? |
| Re: Catholic vs Muslim views on sacrifice of Ismai |
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| Nadeem |
| 12/14/04 at 07:33:43 |
| [slm] I'm not a scholar on these issues by any means, so please forgive me if I make any errors, and feel free to correct me. From my understanding, it seems that Hagar, Ishmael's mother, was seen by Biblical scholars perhaps as a despised figure and one who took Abraham from his "rightful" wife, Sarah. I read an article (can't find it right now, inshallah will try and locate it) that comments on the fact, that all attempt was made to write Hagar off, and hence deny the legitimacy of Ishmael. Denying the legitimacy of Ishmael would of course, affect the interpretation of certain prophecies, not least, Genesis 22:18: "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." (Taken from the KJV version) Prophet Muhammad is generally accepted as being a descendant of Ishamel (or Ismail). [wlm] |
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