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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Love for the sake of Allah? |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/18/05 at 10:12:10 |
| i have a question. is it ok to love someone of the opposite sex for the sake of Allah? This love does not involve any bad intentions, any physical attachments, no secret stares, etc. there is no flirty talk between these two people. my question is, is it still ok to like this person(in your heart, not expressing it) and just wait and see what comes with time? |
| love for the sake of Allah - opposite gender? |
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| jannah |
| 04/18/05 at 11:58:38 |
| slm, This is a great question!! I've actually contemplated this a few times. I think that definitely one can love someone of the opposite sex for the sake of Allah. Surely we all have love for Rasulullah saw, the male companions, our scholars of old, scholars of today, our Imams. Men who have given us knowledge and light, one's we admire and so on. I really have even come to believe that two people of the opposite gender can have a very deep relationship on an intellectual and supportive level. And I think that this is something seriously lacking in our Islamic ummah, because we are so afraid and don't really know how to do platonic relationships with the opposite gender. We don't have guidelines or means in our Islamic society to do this with grace, understanding and tolerance. For some reason our relationships have come to the point where I know most ppl believe the only relationship they should have with anyone outside their gender is of marriage. This seriously handicaps and eventually kills a society. However, the big however I've concluded is that the relationship must be purely platonic with NO thoughts of "what may come" or any other intentions on either side. If either side has some kind of "maybe" in the future or u are talking to him for some other reason in your heart you should just stop. Because honestly it's only going to emotionally drain you. If you "like" him in that way, your relationship has stopped being solely for the sake of Allah. BTW there's nothing wrong with admiring someone for their good Islamic qualities, but beware of confusing loving someone for the sake of Allah and liking them for yourself... |
| 04/18/05 at 11:59:34 |
| jannah |
| Know yourself! |
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| anon |
| 04/19/05 at 01:58:59 |
| [slm] One who knows his nafs is generally very careful of it! As the sages have said: "Be careful of your nafs, for it is worse then 70 shaitans!" Every single person I know who had a "platonic relationship with the opposite sex" (and most of those were very devout people) ended up very far away from their original spiritual state. From doing dhikr and recitations of the Quran everyday, they now just pray the fard and even miss a lot of the sunnas associated with the 5 prayers. Most of their free time that was spent in learning and practising the religion is now used up in their "platonic" relationships. To an outsider their "platonic" relationships seem to involve flirting yet they deny it vehemently and insist it is just "a relationship on another level...." In one case, a person who was going to get married in a few days time, decided that he actually loved one of his "platonic friends" and the "platonic friend" suddenly found feelings for him! In the span of 24 hrs disaster had run through two families! I have only seen disaster for spirituality in such relationships. No wonder our religion (& the Quran) advises women to talk in a "matter-of-fact" tone with strangers, and only as much as is necessary, so that someone with evil in his heart will not be encouraged! May Allah help the pious to revive the sunnah of having no non-mahram friends of the opposite sex at any level! (Need to make some "Non-Mehram FREE!" bumper stickers :-[) |
| 04/19/05 at 02:05:13 |
| anon |
| hmm |
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| jannah |
| 04/19/05 at 02:09:23 |
| wlm, wow bro... let's just say there is a serious difference between a REAL platonic relationship and a FAKE one... |
| but the nafs veils the difference |
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| anon |
| 04/19/05 at 02:14:56 |
| [slm] Definately there is! And the people involved in the relationship are usually not able to see that for their own case. I have seen up close the shaitan and the nafs fool too many practising Muslims! Some were close friends of mine, and now only hang out with people who have "platonic relationships" |
| 04/19/05 at 02:16:35 |
| anon |
| questionable |
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| jannah |
| 04/19/05 at 03:34:45 |
| slm, ok do u think that there CAN be purely platonic relationships or do you think they don't exist? because what you're implying is that they can't exist which doesn't make much sense to me |
| 04/19/05 at 03:37:17 |
| jannah |
| Platonic Relationships |
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| anon |
| 04/19/05 at 05:03:53 |
| [slm] In cases where a man, for example, takes a female as a teacher of religion, and observes the strictest adab, a platonic relationship maybe possible. However, in platonic friendships, no matter how platonic it seems to the people involved, I believe it is either of the following 2 cases: - it is not platonic - it is platonic at the moment but bound to degenerate... they may not do anything different but in their hearts they develop fondness for each other that can transform into something more... |
| Fuzzy Barriers |
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| Kathy |
| 04/19/05 at 08:04:49 |
| [slm] My 2 cents... When you are in the reproductive phase of your life, I think it is almost impossible to have a platonic relationship at all times. In other words, impossible to be platonically involved during the whole friendship. I say almost impossible, because I have had some platonic relationships that remained that way. On the other hand I have had platonic friendships that had the possibility of 'degenerating', well put al-anon! The extreme fondess, love, lust all have barriers that tend to be fuzzy and blend in together at different stages in a relationship. What I have found is that if you choose to have a platonic relationship, make sure it is with a strong in their deen/eeman, self confident Muslim. I have found that it is possible to love some one for the sake of Allah in this case. Momma Mods advice... try your best to form halal relationships, no sense going near the fire. |
| 04/19/05 at 08:06:20 |
| Kathy |
| Re: Love for the sake of Allah? |
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| muslimah853 |
| 04/19/05 at 18:23:28 |
| [slm] My three cents :) I would say that I agree in general with Jannah, because of being involved in the Muslim community a fair deal I (of necessity) interact with brothers alot. I have alot of respect and yes, love for many of them. I consider them friends. I have alot of respect and yes, love for my (male) teachers. They are Muslims, I love them. And they are Muslims I have come to know, so I can love specific things about them. I think the trick though, is that I really don't think that 'hanging out' is productive. At all. I think that spending time with people of the opposite gender unnecessarily and frivolously carries with it enormous potential for degeneration, as a previous poster put it. I have also had alot of platonic relationships with males before I was Muslim, and from that experience I will say definitely even if you can be sure that your own feelings and actions will never stray you cannot say the same for the other person. So in a nutshell, I would say that it is certainly possible to love someone of the opposite gender in a way that has absolutely nothing to do with the type of love that would be haram for non-mahrem, non-married folks. But it is very important to maintain proper adab and what not, because it is very easy to go off into another direction. |
| misunderstood me |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/23/05 at 01:53:19 |
| as salaam, i think you guys misundrstood me. i am not talking about platonic relationships. I meant actually liking some1 and not expressing it, just waiting and see what happens. Like liking the person from your heart, but not doing any haraam acts. |
| hmm |
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| jannah |
| 04/23/05 at 01:56:25 |
| wlm, doesn't everyone do that?? it's not called "love for the sake of Allah" it's called a crush!!! |
| love for what? |
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| timbuktu |
| 04/23/05 at 02:24:40 |
| [slm] [quote author=Anonymous link=board=madrasa;num=1113833531;start=0#9 date=04/23/05 at 01:53:19]actually liking some1 and not expressing it, just waiting and see what happens. Like liking the person from your heart, but not doing any haraam acts. [/quote] as jannah said, this love is not for the sake of Allah (swt), but if this has come over you without unlawful gazes, such a love itself is not haram. All I can pray for you is to have your lawful desires fulfilled, and also this love to be turned into love for Allah's sake only. There is a story. It is not a nice one, and I don't want to go into details. A prince heard of the beauty of a girl, and desired her, so he sent gifts and emissaries (women as well to see her beauty) to ask for her hand. When the girl was asked for her consent, she wanted a month to go to the prince. At the end , ..... the naseeha in this is what is it about that particular person one desires. If it is the physical appearance, suppose that person develops a deformity, has an accident, loses eyesight, hearing, ability to focuss his mind, etc. etc. would you still love him? Love for the sake of Allah, or better still love Allah. If He takes away these qualities that evoke love in you, you should still be able to love that creation of His. & if He takes away that person from you, you would still have Allah - your true love. |
| 04/23/05 at 07:04:25 |
| timbuktu |
| huh? |
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| jannah |
| 04/23/05 at 02:30:24 |
| slm, timbuktu?? i don't get it what's the story??? |
| uneasy with the story |
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| timbuktu |
| 04/23/05 at 06:58:13 |
| [slm] you don't get it because I did not want to write out the full story. If you want to know, the prince was one known for appreciation of all things beautiful, and that is why he had desired to have this damsel as his wife. The girl's beauty can only be described by poets, and I am not one. She was young, so the attraction of youth was there, too. Farsi and Urdu poetry likens becautiful eyes to those of the deer, and her eyes were like that. I have seen such eyes only once in my life. The girl had said she would go to the prince after a month. After that time, the emissaries came to collect the girl, and a dolee was prepared which accompanied them back to the prince. When the dolee was brought in the presence of the prince, and the curtains liftede, the prince was surprised and not a little angry that instead of the young lady there were two air-tight packages: one small and one large. There was an envelope addressed to the prince, on the outside saying that these packages were gifts for the prince, and the envelope was to be opened only after them. The prince opened the small package and was suprised to find two eyes in it. When he opened the second package the odor was stinking. He did not understand what the gifts were and why. He opened the note and in that the girl had said: "O prince, if you have proposed to me because of my physical beauty, remember this is transitory, and due only to the flesh and fat under my skin. So, if you love my beauty, I have been taking laxatives, and the material that caused this beauty has passed into this sack I have sent to you. If it were my eyes you were in love with, here are these two eyes, take them, and look at them to your heart's content. Now my body has shrivelled. All the fat under the skin had disappeared, and I look like an old haggard. Now I am blind, too. Do you love me? If so, I am now ready to marry you in this state." I did not write out this story because I feel uneasy with it, but it was told by a friend who is now dead, so out of respect for him I remember this story. So, when we are in love, let us ask ourselves what it is about thta perason we are in love with - the physical appearance, the intellect, the manners, whatever. Then imagine that person having lost that gift, and ask yourself, are you still in love. |
| 04/23/05 at 07:01:39 |
| timbuktu |
| footsteps |
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| MIT |
| 04/23/05 at 08:26:17 |
| assalaamu alaikum Anonymous, have you ever heard the story of Barseesa the great worshipper from the Children of Israel? Your question immediately made his story come to my mind. |
| re |
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| Anonymous |
| 04/26/05 at 13:09:31 |
| as salaam, timbuktu, in that story you summed up exactly what i wanted to say. crush lasts for what...few days?week?month? but what if u like someone for years? i am very sure this is not a crush, because its not the looks, appearances, or body. its the heart, the personality, and the imaan that i like. is it still haram then? if it is, then can someone please advice me as to what i should do? and no, i haven't heard of the story MIT..can u please tell? |
| Barseesa |
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| MIT |
| 04/27/05 at 07:30:56 |
| The story of Barseesa There was a man who lived amongst the children of Israel named Barseesa. His worship and devotion to Allah was so great that we call him 'aabid bani Isra'eel': the great worshipper from the Children of Israel. During his time, the King of the land made a call for men to join the army to fight in a jihad against an enemy. Amongst those who wanted to sign up were three brothers, but there was one problem. They had one sister and no other family to look after her. So they decided to go to Barseesa, the righteous man, and ask him to look after her in their absence, as they feared no evil from him. Barseesa immediately refused their request: he would rather devote his time to worship of Allah. But when the three brothers went away, shaitan came to Barseesa and whispered to him "If you don't look after the sister, then they will leave her in the hands of someone else, and then her safety isn't guaranteed." So Barseesa changed his mind and took responsibility for the sister while the three brothers left. He left her in a house next to the building in which he prayed and each day he would prepare her some food and leave it outside his house for her, and then she would come and pick it up. After some time, shaitan again came to Barseesa and suggested "why don't you go and deliver the food to her doorstep. As it is, she is coming out of the house and everyone sees her, and you can see her inconvenience." So Barseesa accepted this suggestion and started taking the food right to the doorstep of where she was staying. This continued for a while until shaitan came to him again and said "how can you leave the food at her doorstep? She still has to open the door and people see her." Barseesa again changed his plan and decided to take the food into the house. But that was it, he decide. No further. So this continued for a while until shaitan came and whispered to him "why dont you ever ask her how she is, at the moment she lives like a prisoner no one ever talks to her." So now Barseesa started to talk to her, and soon they were smiling and laughing with each other and then passions flared, and then they fell in love, and then Barseesa, `aabid Bani Israeel, committed zina. The story doesn't end there because she became pregnant. Shaitan now came to Barseesa and said "What have you done? If those three brothers come back and find their sister with a child, they will know that you betrayed their trust and committed zina with their sister, and then they are going to kill you. The only way to get out of this situation is to kill the child." So Barseesa killed the child. Shaitan came back to him again and warned "Do you think that the woman is going to keep quiet about the fact that you killed her child? The only way you can save yourself from this situation is to kill her too." So Barseesa killed her as well. Time passed, and the three brothers returned from jihad and asked for their sister. Barseesa merely pointed to a fake grave in which he had buried some animal bones. So the brothers cried and returned to their home. However, shaitan came to each of them in a dream and said "that man Barseesa is a liar. When you were away he committed zina with your sister and then he killed her and their child and buried her in such-and-such place. And the grave you were shown is a fake grave with animal bones in it." When these three brothers woke up, they were shocked that they had all shared the same dream. So they checked the false grave to find the animal bones, and found the real grave of their sister and her child. When they interrogated Barseesa about it he confessed to everything, so they chained him up and dragged him to the King so that he could be executed. On the way there, shaitan appeared to Barseesa in a physical form and said "O Barseesa, do you know who i am? I am shaitan, and i am the one who has led you along this path. And now i am the only one who can save you." Barseesa begged for help, so shaitaan instructed "If you prostrate to me i will save you." So Barseesa prostrated to shaitan and ... shaitan disappeared. Barseesa ex-`aabid Bani Israeel was led away and executed. The point of the story is, you might think at the beginning that what you are doing is fine and that you can keep check on your emotions and everything, but you don't know where this will lead to. Shaitan didn't come to Barseesa directly and tell him to commit zina or murder, rather he took the softly-softly approach, and Barseesa fell for it. Shaitan doesn't come us guys and say "go and sleep with that girl." He starts off by saying "hey, check her out, isn't she pretty." And then, "why don't you just pop over there and say hello to her?"* and then ... i guess you know what i'm saying We really do hope that you take the decision to abandon this guy for the sake of Allah. Good deeds help you to do more good deeds, whereas, bad deeds make it easier for you to do more bad deeds. * There is an expression in Arabic in 4 lines which describes this excellently. Does anyone remember it? Its something like as-salaam, thummal-liqaa, ... ??? |
| 04/27/05 at 07:39:33 |
| MIT |
| MIT |
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| jannah |
| 04/27/05 at 09:16:23 |
| slm, umm wow MIT that story is scary so anyway if that didn't scare you off anonymous i just wanted to tell you that it's fine for you to "admire someone's good Islamic character and qualities and wish to marry them"... i don't consider that "loving someone for the sake of Allah" category but Allahu alam... it is though quite normal, and a good thing for when looking to get married... but just keep a check on how you interact with him and make sure it's all above board ;) else u might turn into the guy in MIT's story... :o |
| story |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/27/05 at 12:05:27 |
| [slm] mashallah, excellent story MIT, where is the reference for it? |
| Barseesa |
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| Aadhil |
| 04/27/05 at 13:27:47 |
| [slm] Wow I can't believe non of you know that story! Imam Anwar Al Awlaki related it too in one of his lectures. Mebbe even in his CD sets, but I can't remember which. I've heard this story many times. I just can't believe you guys haven't heard it:o I looked it up in google and I found this: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&q=barseesa++anwar+al+awlaki&btnG=Search |
| 04/27/05 at 13:31:05 |
| Aadhil |
| Reference |
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| AbdulBasir |
| 04/27/05 at 15:23:01 |
| [quote author=Muslim link=board=madrasa;num=1113833531;start=10#19 date=04/27/05 at 13:27:47] [slm] Wow I can't believe non of you know that story! Imam Anwar Al Awlaki related it too in one of his lectures. Mebbe even in his CD sets, but I can't remember which. I've heard this story many times. I just can't believe you guys haven't heard it:o [/quote] [slm] Imam Anwar al-Awlaki narrates this story in the "Hereafter" series, on the tape/CD entitled evil ending. [slm]:) |
| 04/27/05 at 15:26:36 |
| AbdulBasir |
| story of Barseesah. |
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| Tesseract |
| 04/29/05 at 00:44:46 |
Assalamu 'alaykum wa Rahmatullah, Br. Muhammad AlShareef has also mentioned this story in one of his lectures/Cds. I think the title of the CD is "Spear of the devil". Wassalam. |
| Re: Love for the sake of Allah? |
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| Abu_Hamza |
| 04/29/05 at 19:09:12 |
| Assalamu alaikum, It also appears in the [i]Ihyaa`[/i] of Imam al-Ghazali. You can find it in "Breaking the Two Desires," translated by TJ Winters and published by Islamic Texts Society. |
| Love for the sake of Allah |
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| Bangachi |
| 05/04/05 at 02:29:16 |
| The sheer force and temptation forgive me if this does not apply to you.. to have a crush can cloud your mind, vision, spirituality, and sanity. From experience I fell secretly mad deeply in what I naively thought was love but was a mirage a wicked jinn. I felt pain so deep in my soul I felt dead. A lesson learned if Allah wills it it will be if not that is denying your creator for his creation. |
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