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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Talking, Sins, and the Devout people |
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| anon |
| 04/19/05 at 01:46:32 |
| [slm] I originally posted this "nasiha" (advice) that I have received from scholars as a reply to Bhaloo's post "They still think I'm a virgin..." in the Ummah Community Center. However I have moved it here as I think a lot of people these days, including some learned people, don't know about this. ----------------------------------------- Unfortunately it has become a habit amongst many devout people to discuss the sins prevalent in society. It has come to the point that some people tend to enjoy vicariously by talking about the sins of others. I have heard from a great Shafii scholar the following usul(rule): "Talking about acts of disobedience to Allah (without need) is an act of disobedience to Allah" This position has been related by Imam al-Ghazali, Imam al-Nawawi, and Imam al-Barkawi amongst others. When someone asked him, "does it not help to know the evil in the society so one can avoid it?" He said: "Everyone knows about the evils in the society. You don't need to mention the fornicators and the drunkards to know that some people committ those sins!" This ofcourse applies when you dont use names (using names is backbiting). So for example "lots of college kids these days commit zina" would fall under this very category. The only times this would be acceptable would be to warn a Muslim from potential harm.. e.g. "Since you are going to that country make sure u dont goto that town, such and such happens in that town" (This is ok if you suspect the person might end up travelling through that town) I have observed the hikmah in this rule. So many times a scholar or a religious person would mention the wicked ways of some Muslims in these times, and some of the audience would feel tempted to "try out" the fun as their tazkiya would be lacking. I have known people who had some very hard days fighting desires which were prompted by listening to some "wild wicked stories" in Islamic lectures. [i]As Abul-Abbas al Mursi said: Whoever does not become steeped in our way (of tazkiya) dies committing enormities.[/i] |
| 04/20/05 at 01:32:35 |
| anon |
| DUH! |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/19/05 at 20:20:25 |
| [quote author=al-anon link=board=madrasa;num=1113889593;start=0#0 date=04/19/05 at 01:46:32] I originally posted this "nasiha" (advice) that I have received from scholars as a reply to Bhaloo's post "They still think I'm a virgin..." in the Ummah Community Center. [/quote] A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Maybe you haven't heard about the hadith about making 70 excuses? [quote] The only times this would be acceptable would be to warn a Muslim from potential harm.. e.g. "Since you are going to that country make sure u dont goto that town, such and such happens in that town" (This is ok if you suspect the person might end up travelling through that town) [/quote] Perhaps you understand why such a thing was posted, if not next time ask before using your imagination. |
| "steeped in a way" or else die on Kaba'ir??? |
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| amatullah |
| 04/19/05 at 22:34:45 |
| [wlm] Nice post and it has good points masha'Allah. It is positive and encourages goodness in Muslim communities. But there is a time and place for everything. Sometimes it is necessary to discuss bad thigns and I believe that post by the Br is in order. But here is what i don't like whenever someone says a great scholar said that he heard it from a another great scholar, but don't want to name them, there is usually something wrong. When they like to emphasize that it is according to a certain Mathhab without names or evidences, also weird. Likely they are part of sects or deviant groups. Also, I was not happy to read this: "As Abul-Abbas al Mursi said: Whoever does not become steeped in our way (of tazkiya) dies committing enormities" IF I understand this correctly, I think this is a wrong statement of contemporary sufis. In Arabic it is "Tariqa" that is meant by "our way of tazkiya". And hardly anybody is steeped in much unless you are a scholar or student in knowledge anyway. Each group of sufis has their own "way/tariqa". But it is "the way" of prophet Muhammad not the sufis that we should follow and encourage others to do so as Muslims. They argue their way is the way of prophet Muhammad [saw] but then again when you ask about things that are not documented from his life [saw], they say it is secret sacred knowledge. If it falls under Ibada and it cannot be attributed to the prophet [saw]and they ask you to do it regularily, it is bida'a. |
| 04/20/05 at 13:10:05 |
| amatullah |
| Disclosing sins |
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| jannah |
| 04/19/05 at 23:38:46 |
| slm, I removed the names in the article because I didn't feel it was appropriate. And obviously it wasn't posted to spread the sins of people. It was posted probably as a warning that something is really wrong in our community. It is also important to note that the article was written by a non-muslim so don't know the veracity of it, but I do think we can use it as a springboard to talk about some of the problems we are having in our communities and where/what we should target our dawah towards --specifically it seems like a whole segment ie Muslim pre-college girls are being forgotten and the topic of relationships/sex/marriage etc is probably somehting that is never explained to them. So perhaps this is a topic and age group we should focus on. |
| Talking about sins |
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| anon |
| 04/20/05 at 01:30:50 |
| [slm] Just wanted to clarify 2 points: 1. The above position on talking about sins has been related to us by major fuqaha like Imam al-Ghazali, Imam al-Nawawi, and Imam al-Barkawi amongst others. 2. My intention in the post was not to rebuke the person who posted the original article about Muslim girls. I am surprised some people thought so. It was merely to acquint people with an usul of our deen as related by some major and well respected scholars. |
| hmmm |
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| bhaloo |
| 04/20/05 at 09:43:36 |
| Jazak Allah khairen sister Amatullah. [quote author=al-anon link=board=madrasa;num=1113889593;start=0#4 date=04/20/05 at 01:30:50] 2. My intention in the post was not to rebuke the person who posted the original article about Muslim girls. I am surprised some people thought so. It was merely to acquint people with an usul of our deen as related by some major and well respected scholars. [/quote] Obviously people thought it was an attack on me, including myself, because you used my name and intended to respond to the article I posted by means of your post. I'm surprised you haven't written a public apology. |
| re: |
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| se7en |
| 04/20/05 at 10:44:24 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, hmm.. I'm not sure what exactly is going on here, but... 'tazkiya' does not necessarily imply subscription to a tariqah or any such matter. Every Muslim must embark on a process of tazkiya and self purification; it is a word that means growth and cleansing of the qalb from defects and illnesses such as shirk, arrogance, anger, doubts, greed, and so forth and then ornamenting the qalb with beautiful qualities such as love for Allah, hope in Him, generosity, courage, gratitude( patience, discipline, etc. It is a spiritual process of overcoming the lower self and increasing in faith to the state that the call of the deen overrides our call to lowly passions. It is so unfortunate that the science of tazkiya is tied in many people's minds with particular groups or movements. In our tradition tazkiya was taught and imbibed by our scholars just as other religious sciences were; prescriptions were given for spiritual ailments (fasting to break attachment to food; sadaqah to break attachment to wealth, etc) just as juristic rulings were given out by those qualified in fiqh. Our communities are suffering from an imbalance because this science is so often overlooked and neglected. What's the use of knowing all the detailed juristic rulings of salah, and the fine points of differences of opinion on how to place your hands when standing, or move your finger in tashahud, if you are not engaged in salah with full khushu', with a focused heart and sincere intentions? (and of course the opposite is true; sincere intentions do not suffice without the proper knowledge of external shar') may Allah open our hearts to knowing that this deen is a full, comprehensive and complete way of life for us, and that it does neglect any part of our composition, external or internal. take care, wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah |
| 04/20/05 at 10:46:58 |
| se7en |
| al-mursi |
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| amatullah |
| 04/20/05 at 13:09:16 |
| [wlm] sis se7en you are right tazkiya does not necessarily mean subscribing to a tariqa but to suifs it is. Tazkiyatunafs is something we should all be doing as Muslims by many methods that the prophet [saw] has taught us including internal like remembrance of Allah or extarnal like sadaqas etc, and is often neglected in modern day. And jazaki Allah khayr for that the reminder because it is true. However, I don't think what you are implying is fully right. It is not tied in my mind for no reason with any particular group. There is actually very good reason to do this, and certainly I did not come up with this from my own mind, but from the mouths of ahlusunnah wal jama'a scholars. Many "sufis" focus on tazkiya and leave other important obligations. And the contemporary sufis have innovated ALOT in terms of how to do tazkiya and what it entails, and its levels and what not. My reply was about the quote in first post which is directly related to sufism and following the way/tariqa of the silsila that he belongs to. Look it up if you don't believe me. What I wrote was in response and in its right place I believe. No one dies on a Major Sin simiply because they did not become fully immersed in a sufi tariqa! Otherwise prophet Muhammad [saw] would have mentioned it. |
| 04/20/05 at 13:16:45 |
| amatullah |
| science of... |
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| amatullah |
| 04/20/05 at 13:22:20 |
| And just as a question I wonder why did you say "Science of tazkiya'? not just the "fiqh of" or "ibada of". Or is "science" equivelant to those words? This is meant honestly as a genuine question. I want to know when in English can you say it is a science? Like I can say the science of prayers when I mean the fiqh of Prayers? Because I notice the only times they science is often sufis talking about tazkiya. So I can say the Science of Thikr? or the science of Hajj? Who called it that and why? or it is just a common used expression? |
| 04/20/05 at 13:24:11 |
| amatullah |
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