A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| An old topic -- Aishah and the age of marriage |
|---|
| lucid9 |
| 04/21/05 at 03:20:42 |
| [slm] my sister gave her high school senior project presentation on the effects of culture and islam on marriage, and one of the questions which she was asked was about Aishah's marriage at age 9. Now, I have always been rather incredulous that she could have been married at 9 (in spite of the sahih hadith in Bukhari and Muslim) and felt it surely to be a mistake. (I mean is it medically possible for someone that age to have intimate relations -- wouldn't it cause bodily harm? ) Also, i do believe it to be very highly dubious to say that when a girl reaches puberty that she is ready to become a wife. A nine year old or 12 year is still mentally immature, unable to grasp difficult concepts, and hence it is very silly to call a 9 or 12 year "grown up" or "mature" or an "adult." For example, you don't see many 9 year olds at university studying calculus do you? Nor are there claims of brilliant women scholars of age 9-12 going to an islamic university 1000 years when girls of such an age might have been considered adults. OK....so trying to help my little sister, i did a google search. Most of the articles i found were rather unhelpful -- and tried to hammer home the point: that hey, "everybody used it do it at that age back then, so what's the big deal?" Then i found the following "In her youth, already known for her striking beauty and her formidable memory, she came under the loving care and attention of the Prophet himself. As his wife and close companion she acquired from him knowledge and insight such as no woman has ever acqui red. Aishah became the Prophet's wife in Makkah when she was most likely in the tenth year of her life but her wedding did not take place until the second year after the Hijrah when she was about fourteen or fifteen years old. Before and after her wedding she maintained a natural jollity and innocence and did not seem at all overawed by the thought of being wedded to him who was the Messenger of God whom all his companions, including her own mother and father, treated with such love and reverence as they gave to no one else." in a jannah.org article interestingly enough. My first question is: (1) what sources say that Aishah was not 9? When was the marriage consummated? After or before the marriage? (2) if the prophet married a child for the purpose of raising a genius child-wife fully in islam, why didn't he do it again? I mean Aishah is responsible for thousands of hadith. He could have married a whole gaggle of memory geniuses to faithfully preserve every action of his life in their memories for future generations. (3) another funny thing is -- in the quote above -- it is said that aishah was known for her beauty? I haven't heard that before. But, if it is so -- post puberty women are known for their beauty. Kids are not known for their beauty. Most kids, almost all kids, are considered by everyone to be beautiful and cute. (4) If she was so young, why weren't there horrid reactions by the prophet's daughters? Imagine if your 50 your old saintly dad marries a girl half your age? Would you just smile, and say cool! Well done dad?! (5) What other records are their of sahaba marrying very young girls? I don't know of any. Presumably, since the sahabah copied the prophet meticulously, there would have been a run on young marriagable women -- which seems very much not to have happened. My personal opinion, in case you care is: it is much more probable that Aishah was significantly older, the various hadith nothwithstanding. The hadith perhaps belong to a group of very misogynistic dubious hadith propagated by not so nice muslim scholars principally because they promoted the view that men are cooler than women. (E.g: the hadith about women bowing to their husbands, hell being full of women and not men, etc.) [wlm] -hyper |
| Aishah and the age of marriage |
|---|
| timbuktu |
| 04/21/05 at 10:58:24 |
| [slm] [quote author=hyper link=board=library;num=1114068042;start=0#0 date=04/21/05 at 03:20:42] ... I have always been rather incredulous that she could have been married at 9 (in spite of the sahih hadith in Bukhari and Muslim) ... [/quote] [quote]My personal opinion, in case you care is: it is much more probable that Aishah was significantly older, the various hadith nothwithstanding. The hadith perhaps belong to a group of very misogynistic dubious hadith propagated by not so nice muslim scholars principally because they promoted the view that men are cooler than women. (E.g: the hadith about women bowing to their husbands, hell being full of women and not men, etc.)[/quote] 1. There is one way of going about the deen, that is to disregard the sources, and to listen to what our intuition or our conscience says. 2. The other way is to accept that the "science" of Hadith and its transmission has been a remarkable achievement of Muslims. If you subscribe to the 1st, what is it you can ever be sure of? Would any Hadith be true for all ages, or the truth will change with the fashion in vogue? |
| oh dear! |
|---|
| lucid9 |
| 04/21/05 at 12:01:13 |
| [slm] oh dear. here we go. questioning a hadith does not take you out of islam. the only way that can even be remotely possible is if the hadith is mutawatir -- i.e. has similar lines of transmission as the quran. the science of hadith transmission is of course remarkable. but people take it too far. for example many, many people consider it part of their aqueedah that the sahih hadith have actually been protected in a similar way to how Allah promised that that quran would be preserved. allah promised to protect the quran, not the hadith. previously, allah didn't even promise to protect the holy scriptures of early peoples. so this is not a surprise. people get excited about things like this, because they fear that once people start being critical of the hadith, they will simply chuck a whole part of the sacred tradition out the door. however, this is not what most sensible people mean by questioning various hadith. sensible people want a balanced approach -- that yes the hadith are incredibly important, but no, they are not divine, no matter how many rakaat Imam Bukhari prayed before deciding whether to accept a narration or not. -h |
| Sayyeda Ayesha (ra)'s marriage |
|---|
| timbuktu |
| 04/21/05 at 12:17:17 |
| [slm] bro hyper, if you are unable or unwilling to see the problems of doubting AHadeeth or subjecting approval of particular AHadith to one's (or society's changing whims), I will leave this matter here. as for the matter of marriage of Sayyeda Aisha (ra), here is a beautiful piece, written (in answer to an Israeli) by an Egyptian Muslimah who is a gynaecoloist/ obstetritian, as well as very learned in Islam (and a pious Muslimah): Sayeda Aisha betrothal is still practised in many arab countries, betrothal means, that you promise your daughter to a certain man. rules: 1. she must agree 2. she must not be engaged to anyone else Sayeda Aisha (Lady Aisha) may Allah be pleased with her had just had her betrothal to another person broken, a friend of her fathers who having discovered that Abu Bakr was a Muslim wished to have nothing more to do with him. So? Six year old Aisha was at that time NOT betrothed to anyone, though she WAS betrothed previously. Sayeda Aisha recalls the time of her betrothal, she says, that she was playing outside when her father called her in and told her that the Prophet PBUH wished to marry her, and she agreed. The marriage could not be carried out until she had reached the age of puberty. THAT was the law then in the jahilia of ahl alhijaz, as it is now. Women reach puberty early in hot climates, and nine is not an uncommon time for marriage, there are many such marriages in the past and the early present, somewhere about the early twentieth century, when girls were married off the minute they reached puberty, what would they hang around doing? that was the way it was THEN. Sorry Erizito, I guess you're too much nonJewsish and non semitic to understand the cultures of the semitic races, muslims or jews. BUT if you had had a jewish arab greatgrandma, I'll bet you anything she would have been married around fourteen or thirteen or even ten, if that had been the time of her puberty, and her parents were religious, and they had found the right husband for her, thats the way it was. Women were around to help in the house until she reached puberty, then she was married and off to her husbands house, women died early then, and maternal mortality was high, that was in the past, women NOW can do as they please, they dont even have to get married if they dont want. people were waiting for ONE MISTAKE from the prophet, my God, how they tried to kill him, and how they tried and tried to dishonor him, the names they called him, the attempts at homicide, and here was a great BEAUTIFUL SCANDAL right in front of their noses and they just ignored it, pity you werent alive then erizito, my Israeli not really a jew- but still a sort of- atheist jew- friend. You have responsibilities before you, you must go NOW to arabia of the past and tell these kafir guys how remiss they have been, we should be reading scandals and horror, and child abuse documents and orders for arrest. Instead, our beloved prophet was married, the way most men usually married after a betrothal which was blessed by joy from all the Muslims and the kaffirs back then? well they couldnt care less-ignorant fools. of course NOW it is NOT Allowed, because we have fresh knowledge, and we NOW know its best to leave little girls until they are old enough and responsible enough to own a household of kids in a Muslim environment, though in the rural areas-dont be shocked, they still get married at very young ages, because thats how their culture goes. http://islamonline.net/Discussion/English/bbs.asp?action=maintopic&aParID=509991&aPathID=242&aGroupId=93434&aTpID=509991&aSubject=a+little+chat+with+you+erizito |
| 04/21/05 at 12:25:24 |
| timbuktu |
| suggestion |
|---|
| Rahima |
| 04/21/05 at 18:04:51 |
| [slm] this is just a suggestion, u shud read Martin Ling's "Muhammad his life based on the earliest sources". its very easy to read aswell as absorbing despite the vastness of the subject. it gives very detailed and accurate accounts of the prophets' [saw] life and relationdhips without confusing the reader. It has a bit on Aishah (peace be upon her). This is an extract from it. " the prohet dreamed that he saw a man who was carrying someone rapped in a piece of silk. The man said to him: " this is thy wife, so uncover her." The Prohet lifted the silk and there was Aishah. But aishah was only six yrs old, and he passed his fiftieth year. Moreover Abu bakr had promised her to Mutim for his son Jubayr. The prophet simply said to himself " if this be from God, He will bring it to pass". Afew nights later in his sleep he saw an angel carrying the same bundle of silk, and this time it was he who said to the Angel: "show me" The Angel lifted the silk and there, again was Aishah and again the prohet said: if this be from God, He will bring it to pass" it then goes on to say the marriage was contracted when Aishah wasn't present and that she dimly guessed that she was married but her life continued as before. i seriously recommend this book to everyone really.Peace and may Allah guide in you in ur search for knowledge. |
| Re: An old topic -- Aishah and the age of marriage |
|---|
| WhiteSomali |
| 04/21/05 at 23:35:39 |
| [slm] I read that Martin Lings book a few months ago. A few parts might have been slightly exagerated altho i cant relly remember which parts they were, but overall as far as i kno its accurate and to the point. its written in the style of literature which i dont really like but yeah its a good book inshallah. Off topic but i think its been explained pretty well already so i dont relly have anything to add sry :) [slm] |
| scholar addresses the issue |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 04/22/05 at 23:04:47 |
| [slm] Question: Dear scholars, thanks for your efforts in educating people about Islam. But would you help us address the misconceptions filling the mind of some people, especially the Westerners about the Prophet’s marriage to `Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, as they claim it to be a sign of child abuse? Name of Mufti Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi Content of Reply In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All thanks and praise are due to Allah and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger. Dear questioner, we would like to express our deep gratitude for the great confidence you have in us and hope our humble efforts meet your great expectations. We also admire the great interest you show in understanding the teachings of this great religion of Islam. As regard your question, we’d like to make it clear in the very beginning that Prophet’s marriage to `Aisha, the Mother of the Faithful, has always been a subject of attack and criticism by the enemies of Islam. First of all, we want to clarify to people who view this marriage as some sort of brutal act and child abuse that they should try to understand the main purpose of this marriage and the condition of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, before the marriage. As for the purpose of this marriage, it was purely for sociopolitical reason. The Prophet’s main concern was the future of Islam. He was interested in strengthening the Muslims by all bonds. This also explains the reason why he married the daughter of `Umar, his Second Successor. It was by his marriage to Juwayriyyah that he gained the support for Islam of the whole clan of Bani Al-Mustaliq and their allied tribes. It was through his marriage to Safiyyah that he neutralized a great section of the hostile Jews of Arabia. By accepting Mariya, the Copt from Egypt, as his wife, he formed a political alliance with a king of great magnitude. So his marriage to `Aisha could never be of anything save cementing his relation with Abu Bakr, `Aisha’s father. As for the Prophet’s condition before this marriage, it clearly explained what we’ve said that it was a purely sublime aim and purpose that motivated him to marry `Aisha. That’s why the marriage was not consummated until sometime after the emigration to Madinah, when she had reached maturity. The motives of this marriage can be understood to be anything except passion and physical attraction. However, he lived with her, in addition to Sawdah, for five to six years, when he was 56 years of age, without taking any other wife. One important point we have to clarify here is that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, when proposing to `Aisha, was not the first suitor, for, according to many historians, Jubair ibn Mut`am proposed to her before the Prophet, peace and blessings for him. This gives an indication that `Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, was mature enough for marriage at that age. Giving more details on this issue, Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi, deputy chairman of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, states the following: Firstly, Prophet’s proposal to `Aisha came through a suggestion made by Khawalh bint Hakim as a sign of strengthening the relation with his Companion Abu Bakr and confirming his love for him. Secondly, the fact that `Aisha, before the Prophet proposed to her, was being pursued by Jubair ibn Mut`am, indicates that she was mature enough for marriage, according to the prevailing tradition at that time, if not, the Quraish people, who would never waste any chance to insult the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would have found this marriage as a golden opportunity to pour on him rain of insults. Rather they found nothing wrong in this engagement, and they received the news of the Prophet’s proposal for `Aisha as something usual, and even, expected. `Aisha was not the first case, for many girls married at her same age to men who were at their fathers’ age. Hala, the cousin of Amina bint Wahb was married to Abdul-Muttalib on the same day his son `Abdullah married Aminah bint Wahb who was at Hala’s same age. Also, the Companion `Umar ibn Al-Khattab married the daughter of Ali ibn Abi Talib, may Allah honor his face, while he was at her grandpa’s age. After the passage of many centuries, we find now some Orientalists who try to strike a comparison between the conditions of our present time and what was existing 1400 years ago. They are trying to apply the criterions of the Western society to that society that existed in the Arabian Peninsula very long ago. It should be noted that in the hot regions, it’s normal for a girl to attain maturity at a very early age. Thus the case is totally different from that which does exist in the cold regions where a girl does not attain puberty before 21 [Physicians maintain that the age of puberty in the hot regions normally ranges from 9 to 16]. At all rates, it should be stressed that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, on marrying `Aisha, never aimed at fulfilling a lust or satisfying a desire; rather, his aim was to strengthen his relation with the most beloved Companion of his. Had it been true that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, aimed at fulfilling a lust or satisfying a desire, he would have done this while still in his youth when he was still free from the responsibilities of delivering Allah’s call. At his early age, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, accepted to marry Khadija, may Allah be pleased with her, who was 15 years older than him. He also never married a new wife until after her death. Even after her passing away, his new wife Sawdah bint Zam`ah was an old-aged widow who possessed no particular appealing qualities. This adds to our certainty that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, had many great lofty aims behind his marriages. Also, when Khawlah bint Hakim suggested to him to marry`Aisha, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, thought thoroughly whether to accept or to refuse. He took into consideration his relation with Abu Bakr. When `Aisha reached the Prophet’s house, Sawdah gave her the first place and took care of her till her death.. Afterwards, `Aisha remained a faithful wife to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him; her 10 years of marriage were of the life of a fully dedicated disciple, trainee and scholarly student in the noble Prophetic school. She was the source of knowledge for almost every Companion. She was of the main sources for revealing knowledge and information of the private life of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him. She was a big celebrity in politics and the best example of generosity. The Prophet’s love for `Aisha was a sign of his love for her father. On being asked about the dearest person to his heart, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, mentioned `Aisha. Then, on being asked about the dearest man to him and he, peace and blessings be upon him, mentioned her father, Abu Bakr. Almighty Allah knows best. |
| martin lings book has problems |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 04/22/05 at 23:10:03 |
| [slm] [quote author=Rahima link=board=library;num=1114068042;start=0#4 date=04/21/05 at 18:04:51] [slm] this is just a suggestion, u shud read Martin Ling's "Muhammad his life based on the earliest sources". its very easy to read aswell as absorbing despite the vastness of the subject. it gives very detailed and accurate accounts of the prophets' [saw] life and relationdhips without confusing the reader.[/quote] There are some serious problems with Martin Ling's book, and its been discussed already here: http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=lighthouse;action=display;num=1111013458;start=10 |
| Hmm |
|---|
| theOriginal |
| 04/23/05 at 02:36:15 |
| [slm] Jamal Badawi lectured at ISNA (2003, because that was the only ISNA I've been to) and he kind of cleared the whole misconception by saying that EVEN IF Aisha (ra) was indeed 6 or 9 or whatever, it would have been completely acceptable because of pretty much the same reasons that everyone is citing here. But then he went on to say that the probability of her being 6 or 9 was in fact, nill...because using historical sources it was just impossible. She was probably around 16 or 17 (this was after he explained it using mathematics)....I don't want to misquote Jamal Badawi, but he said that in addition, the person who told of Aisha's age was a forgetful man and at the time his memory was not reliable. So as to her age, I guess it's not really relevant, except to prove that she was very young, and thus had an exceptional memory which served all of us well because of the numerous ahadeeth that she provided later on. So I think I would agree with you (after having looked at the math...using dates, etc), she was probably at least a little bit older than either 6 OR 9, but I also believe that the entire argument is notwithstanding the actual point, which is the fact that she was very young. As for the rest of your questions..(#2-5)...woah man. Wasalaam. |
| this is not an orientalist issue |
|---|
| lucid9 |
| 04/23/05 at 04:55:20 |
| [slm] (1) Ok, maybe i should have been less facetious/humourous in my post. But as my signoff implies, and everybody here knows, -- i'm kindof an idiot. (2) This is not an orientalist issue. Girls from poor families in muslim countries get married at a young age. They soon give birth to several malnourished children before the age 18. Saddled with several children at such a young age, they have no opportunity to develop themselves and end up doing the same thing their mothers did and their mothers did before them. Often many of the their malnourished children die young, and the young women start to become old by the age of 25. And so...their lives effectively end by age 30+ and their children then get married early (because in the village an girl unmarried by the age of 18 is almost scandalous) and then their children are malnourished...and so the cycle continues. I am flabbergasted that muslims so utterly ignore these things. Early marriage among the poor almost always leads to malnourshed children, unhealthy mothers. Those unhealthy mothers are unable to take care of their children properly and intellectually stimulate them. The children then continue the cycle and their children end up dirt-poor and malnourished. For example, upstairs, Sajeda Auntie lives with my grandmother. She is my granny's domestic servant. She I beleive was married off very early. She then had 10 children. But only two survived. My grandmother tried to prevent her two daughters from being married off early, but Sajeda wouldn't hear about it about because of the social stigma. (People believe that Islamically girls should be married off very early, and some erronesously even believe that they should have their first menstral period in the hubby's house.) So her daughters were married off early. Her oldest daughter's first daughter died and then the daughter was divorced. She then married again and now has 2 malnourished sons who are physically very small. The other daughter recently got married is already pregnant. What will happen to her? Any guesses -- ? Gee I wonder. Living in the village she is already malnourished, and her future children and grandchildren will probably be too. So, you see the issue of the prophet getting married to a 9 year old is of fundamental importance to muslims and particularly muslim women. It is not some issue invented by orientalists. Muslim women suffer because of the prophet's supposed marriage to a 9 year old, because everybody believes early marriage to be halal and proper. So what is the proper age of marriage? Well remember the verse from Surah Nis'a "Test orphans until they reach a marriagable age, then if you find that they have sound judgement [hand over their property to them]" (4:6) This verse concerns the handing over of an orphan's property. Here marriagable age is equated with the age of sound judgement. Now is 9 years old the age of sound judgement? Is 12? Is 15? I think almost all of us would accept that a young person is not mentally mature at least until age 16. For example, you don't see many 13 year olds studying calculus in university or writing a 20 page Literature essay, etc. So by this formula, we would expect that women should not marry until much, much later than 9. That is another reason why it is so difficult to believe that the prophet married a 9 year old. |
| at a tangent |
|---|
| rkhan |
| 04/23/05 at 10:31:42 |
| [slm] for some reason this reminded me of a tv show that used to be aired aeons ago about a child genius: Doogie Howser M.D...abt how this precocious kid raced through highschool and medschool to become a postgraduate doctor at 16 .. ...the point is why is it easier to accept child prodigies today...and not be able accept that Aisha [rAa] was special in many ways, in that she was chosen to be the Prophet's [sall Allaahu 'alayhi wassallam's wife]? ...plus how many of the Prophet's companions married nine-year-olds, if indeed the marriage was designed to set a precedent in this matter, and not just a special case? ...also interesting are statistics abt child marriages in the Indian subcontinent, where you have *festivals* at which *non-Muslims* defy the law of the land to get kids married off... [quote]The census report follow-ups of 2001 have thrown up alarming figures which define the inferior status of women in India even in the 21st century of super-fast social change: First: 6.5 million young people under the legal age of 18 are married. Second: There are at least 10 million women living in bigamous marriages in India. Both these figures are a sad commentary on the so-called progress and gender equality achieved by women in the past 58 years of Independence. The reports confirm that the incidence of child marriage - even infant marriage - is common not only in rural areas but also in towns and cities. Such marriages are more common among Hindus than in other communities though all religious denominations accept child marriages in India. A recent television capsule, showing a child bridegroom and bride, sleeping soundly in the arms of their parents and doing the pheras that legalise a Hindu marriage, was shocking to say the least. As Akshay Tritiya, one of the most auspicious days for weddings in India is around the corner on May 11, NGOs all over the country and government agencies are gearing up their vigilance machinery to monitor and stop child marriages. [/quote] http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/apr152005/she913472005414.asp sorry to go off at a tangent...I just thought there's more culture than religion to the picture in the last post ...wa'Allaahu 'aalam |
| 04/23/05 at 10:45:29 |
| rkhan |
| Very intersting |
|---|
| bhaloo |
| 04/24/05 at 11:23:08 |
| [slm] [quote author=hyper link=board=library;num=1114068042;start=0#9 date=04/23/05 at 04:55:20]Girls from poor families in muslim countries get married at a young age. They soon give birth to several malnourished children before the age 18. Saddled with several children at such a young age, they have no opportunity to develop themselves and end up doing the same thing their mothers did and their mothers did before them. [/quote] Define "develop themselves"? Do you mean have an education? Couldn't they do that after getting married? Realistically, if they are living in a 3rd world country, and have 1 or 2 cows on a small farm, do they really need to have any sort of advanced education? I think living in the west, we have this idea of success being, going to college and getting a 6 figure income. How do you measure success? |
| All you need is a cow to be happy! |
|---|
| lucid9 |
| 04/25/05 at 01:19:53 |
| [slm] very funny. (1) most poor people are landless peasants. there is no farm with a bunch of cows!! Oh you people have this hilarious romanticized view of how cool it must be to be poor and all you need is a cow or two and small strip of land to be happy. (2) islam is supposed to work for imperfect people. imperfect husbands in this part of the world usually expect their wives to become baby factories once they get married. they aren't too keen on "education" as most of them are not terribly literate themselves. so early marriage on the expectation that the husband will lovingly support their wife, send her to school and be self-sacrificing for her is rather implausible. you cannot say that husbands act unislamically by not doing such things if it encourages early marriage when early marriage almost inevitably leads to discontinued education, malnourished children and unhealthy young mothers. (3) it would be nice of women could actually learn to read and write properly before gettting married. But no!! Folks, even on this board don't think even that is necessary. -h PS: bhaloo, when's the last time you actually visited this part of the world to find out how muslims actually live? |
| Islam is not just for the poor peasants |
|---|
| anon |
| 04/26/05 at 01:32:53 |
| [slm] Some very valid concerns Br. Hyper. If you continue your self-less feeling for the suffering of others, you will increase in nearness to Allah [swt] inshAllah. As the sages have said: "ibadat karo gay tu jannat milay gi, khidmat karo gay tu Allah millay ga" I hope I have understood you correctly, but it seems you are saying 2 things: 1. the Prophet[saw] did not marry Aisha when she was 9 or younger, but rather when she was much older 2. Islam prohibits marrying off girls when they reach puberty (or it should) and a lower age-limit should be set on marriage, maybe 20 or 21 yrs. The FACT: People have made a much better case out of twisting words from historical references and fuzzy mathematics about Ayesha's age. However the following is a good discussion on all the arguments people use to prove Aisha was older than 9 when married. [url]http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00004861.aspx[/url] As you can see all reliable sources concur that: She was indeed around 7 when the marriage was agreed, and 9 when she started living with the Prophet[saw]. The above discussion also proves that how people assume the difference in age between asma and ayesha when doing their mathematics to conclude age 16 or 17 for marriage. And hers is not the only case: - Al-Shafi`i in al-Umm reported that he saw countless examples of nine-year old pubescent girls in Yemen. Al-Bayhaqi also narrates it from him in the Sunan al-Kubra as does al-Dhahabi in the Siyar. - Al-Bayhaqi narrated with his chains in his Sunan al-Kubra no less than three examples of Muslim wives that gave birth at age nine or ten. - Hisham ibn `Urwa himself (whom the objector claims to know enough to forward the most barefaced judgments on his reliability) married Fatima bint al-Mundhir when she was nine years old (al-Muntazam and Tarikh Baghdad). - Our liege-lord `Umar married Umm Kulthum the daughter of `Ali and Fatima at a similar age per `Abd al-Razzaq, Ibn `Abd al-Barr and others. We will not be asked about Aisha's age when married on the Day of Judgement. The only bearing it can have is on the legality of marrying a girl when she has reached puberty. Islam is not confined to a certain time and place. Many strange times have come and are yet to come. It is not hard to imagine situations where the legality of marrying a girl who has reached puberty, instead of waiting for her to turn 20 or 21, would be helpful. For example one of my friend's cousin in an Arab land got married when he was 17 to a girl who was younger than him. This was because he was from a rich family and the environment around him was such that it was hard for him to remain pious otherwise. A met a Muslim in the US who got married when he had just finished highschool to a 16 year old. Both of them wanted to make their "relationship" halal. All the problems with early marriage you described are there because of lack of wisdom in applying Islam.It is not obligatory in Islam to marry off girls early, it is not obligatory to have children continuously, and it is not prohibited to educate girls. If a poor section of society is being exploited due to peer or cultural pressure into doing things that are not best for them, then it is upto them and their supporters like you to help them get over such pressures and do what is best for them in their own circumstances. All instances of abuse of the rukhsa (allowance) to marry pubescent girls would be considered just as abuse. Wisdom and piety are the solution not changing our deen for our deen is not just for the poor people you have described. |
| 04/26/05 at 01:35:10 |
| anon |
| hmm |
|---|
| se7en |
| 04/28/05 at 12:17:02 |
| as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah, You know, it's interesting, I don't see many people from the subcontinent eager to marry women twice divorced with children. And yet, this was part of the sunnah of Rasulullah, salAllahu alayhi wasalam, as well. People can pick and choose whatever they want from the Sunnah and misuse it as a justification for their behavior: this does not a.) change the authenticity of that act or displace it from indeed being part of the sunnah nor b.) change the inappropriateness of that person's behavior, or their accountability before Allah, if they are not behaving in a way that is compatible with the general principles of nobility, honorable and equitable treatment to one another, especially towards women, as Rasulullah, salAllahu alayhi wasalam taught us in his Khutbatul Wada'aa, after describing the mutual rights we have over one another: "Fear Allah concerning women, for verily you have taken them on the security of Allah and have made their persons lawful unto you by words of Allah." I have heard that in some Muslim countries, dogs are very badly treated and even beaten (which is totally contrary to what Rasulullah, salAllahu alayhi wasalam, taught about kind treatment to all creatures). Will we then begin to question the ahadeeth about dogs, that mention that angels will not enter a home in which they are present? How far are we going to go? How much of the Sunnah will we leave in tact, if we start editing it due to the ignorance of some people and their behavior? The Sunnah of our prophet is something that is very rich, and is one of the main sources of legislation for Shari'ah -- which is the body of law intended to be compatible with every community, in every type of society, in every social, political and geographical climate. We underestimate the Sunnah if we think that the actions in the life of Rasulullah, salAllahu alayhi wasalam, were arbitrary or without wisdom. And we undermine the Sunnah altogether if we choose to reject or ignore aspects of it that don't vibe with what we like and feel comfortable with. I understand your concern about women not being given the opportunity to fulfill their potential in places where they are married off at a very young age, and turned into 'baby making machines'. However, would not the solution be to change the mind set of people, to teach them tradition of great women we have in our deen, how Aisha (ra) was one of the few people in Quraysh who was literate and how she taught many of the great notable male scholars we have in Islam? do people know this? do they have the full picture? blaming the ahadeeth or the sunnah for this type of marriage custom is not sound because there are always a number of factors that influence a society's culture. communities are not monolithic and such a trend would not be sustainable if there were not other factors in society that made it the most conducive course of action. if we are really concerned about changing this trend, we have to assess things in a very logical manner and then address them. the idea that we should and can reject ahadeeth that we find 'incredulous' is a whole other topic altogether. but my point in this post is that you can't blame the messenger, if people are not heeding his message correctly! we need to take on a more enlightened, intelligent view of the world instead of having this defensive posture and quickness to edit any and all things in our deen that are hard to take in. we have to have a better opinion of our Lord, and know that this deen is beautiful in it's entirety. that's what I think anyway :) w'Allahu a'lam. gotta go to work -- wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah |
| 04/28/05 at 12:22:26 |
| se7en |
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board |