A R C H I V E S
Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
Female circumcision |
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Amelia |
09/29/05 at 18:40:17 |
Asalaamu alaykum sisters... I'm a UK medical student looking into female circumcision (which is banned in most cases in the UK). There have been a few studies suggesting that in some cases removal of the clitoral hood is beneficial to women who find it hard to orgasm. Obviously any technique which removes too much tissue is not healthy physically, psychologically or sexually - something confirmed by the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) when he advised not to cut too deeply. Are there any sisters who have any (not necessarily personal) experience of the benefits of female circumcision? Circumcision rates in Egypt, for example, are given as over 90%. Any views?? Jazakallahu khayran. |
Re: Female circumcision |
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Fozia |
09/30/05 at 07:42:26 |
[slm] Male circumcision is advised, didn't personally think there was any sort of religious backing for female circumcision. And no I dunno any female who has been. Wassalaam |
Re: Female circumcision |
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Amelia |
09/30/05 at 13:34:04 |
Well, of course it depends where people get their info from, and there are people who take the view that all five characteristics of the fitrah apply equally to both men and women. but this thread's not to discuss which position applies! the fact is that all over the world there are horrific cases of true mutilation, which no one would approve of. And this is sometimes 'justified' by major world religions by the fact that it reduces the libido of women. But medical 'circumcision' (removal of the female 'foreskin') is carried out for exactly the opposite reason. I think it's an interesting subject because it has such extremes: everyone knows the dreadful consequences of barbaric infibulations etc... I'm trying to hear the other side of the story. Apologies if I've offended anyone... tell me what you think... |
Re: Female circumcision |
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jannah |
09/30/05 at 15:36:44 |
slm, This is a good article on the Islamic view on the subject: Is Female Circumcision Required Dr. Jamal Badawi http://jannah.org/genderequity/equityappendix.html basically it's not required |
Re: Female circumcision |
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theOriginal |
10/01/05 at 00:39:36 |
[slm] When I was in university, I met a lot of sisters who related their horrific experiences of having had circumcision done when they were little. Basically these were procedures which had gone wayyyy wayyyyy overboard -- I'm sorry but I can't relay their experiences in detail. We used to discuss the validity of this procedure (from an Islamic perspective), and what I gathered is that most sisters who have had it done (and had it gone "wrong"), believed that it was preferable to get it done. Personally I don't know. Seeing the amount of suffering these girls went through, was absurd. Even when they had their periods for example, they'd be in so much pain, that it was hard to watch. On the other hand, there was a revert sister who's husband made her get it done after they got married. And she was a strong supporter of the procedure. I never asked for details since the whole topic makes me really squirmish. Don't know if this helped. Wasalaam. |
10/01/05 at 00:41:39 |
theOriginal |
Re: Female circumcision |
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Siham |
10/09/05 at 00:17:07 |
[slm] Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) The practice of clitoridectomy preceded the introduction of Islam in Arabia and in different parts of Africa. This results in severe sexual debilitation of women who cannot possibly achieve sexual fulfillment which is their right as Muslims. Therefore, this practice is totally un-Islamic because it is in direct violation of both Qur'an and hadith which clearly stress the importance of sexual satisfaction for both the husband and wife. http://www.mwlusa.org/publications/positionpapers/fgm.html |
Re: Female circumcision |
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Halima |
10/09/05 at 08:20:42 |
Hmmmm.... Female circumcission is horrible and if I had girls, I wouldn't let them go through it. However, contrary to popular belief, it does not reduce the libido of women! Ask circuscissed women whose libidos are as normal as uncircumcissed women. Therefore, luck of libido is just a mith. Granted, there are women who experience lack of libido, problems during menusrations, etc. This depends on the type of circumcission and the traditional circumsissor. Some are experts and some are amateurs. Any girl who is circumsissed by an amateur goes through HELL. Many countries and communities in Africa STILL practice it. And some of them are not EVEN MUSLIMS. It is all related to tradition rather than religion. One un-refutable TRUTH - circumsissed women under go painful procedures during child birth. Again, it depends on the kind of circumsisson. Read the link jannah has provided on the types of circumssion. |
Re: Female circumcision |
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Nistar |
10/09/05 at 10:33:37 |
[slm] I recently gave a lecture on Sexuality in Islam, and covered FGM. The only positive reports I found during my research were from the pro- side. Essentially arguing that removal of the clitoral hood can aid in sensation. Some argue that the complete removal of the clitoris forces the woman to redirect sensation to her vaginal muscles, which is argued, results in stronger orgasms. As to whether or not supporters of this practise are a) female or b) supporters of the mildest form or circumcision -- who knows. The studies on the positives of FGM are overwhelmingly few. So more often than not, in my research I just came across a lot of rhetoric and not actual data. Particularly when it comes to complete removal, there are simply too many studies illustrating the psychological and physical scars, and health-related problems, to convince me that it could actually be a benefit. Indeed, it is horrendous. Interestingly, there is a (cultural) group that practises hymenectomy when the child is very young -- arguing that the pain is lessened when she engages in intercourse for the first time. Which I am sure is also up to debate. fee aman'Allah |
10/09/05 at 10:38:08 |
Nistar |
Re: Female circumcision |
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abdullahcohn |
10/09/05 at 18:47:31 |
If I Followed Shafi fiqh I would have it done to my daughters. I am not shafi so wont. If you want to know about it speak to Shafi people. East Africans, Yemanis and Malaysians. |
Re: Female circumcision |
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jannah |
10/10/05 at 00:47:53 |
slm, i've only heard the horror stories as well, i can't find anyone who is pro-fgm again i'd like to see the proof if you are saying shafii fiqh recommends it. whether it is "allowed" under circumstances and conditions is quite different from "recommends" |
Re: Female circumcision |
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Caraj |
10/10/05 at 02:02:17 |
I've been reading this thread and sisters, I just cannot see the reason in this. Even the milder version where what they say just the hood is removed :( Would that not lead ot major over sensativity during the monthly? During sex? Even against under garments? Just seems like there was a reason Allah made us women the way he did. and this Female circumcision is like saying Allah did not make a good enough design. I'm not gonna even think that. no no |
10/10/05 at 02:03:10 |
Caraj |
Re: Female circumcision |
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jannah |
10/10/05 at 02:19:55 |
What we're discussing here is a cultural practice, so I hope no one gets the idea that it is Islamically mandated or anything!! Anyways yeah I find it rather replusive as well. |
Re: Female circumcision |
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abdullahcohn |
10/10/05 at 04:12:15 |
Cultural background Female genital cutting is primarily a social practice, not a religious one. It is today a mainly African cultural practice. It crosses the lines of various religious groups. It is found among Muslims, Christians, African Jews and Animists. [12] A number of reasons are put forward for the practice of FGC. These include the belief that it annuls or moderates sexual desires in women. It is also believed that it is more hygienic. Frequently the practice is associated with traditional initiation rites. Some believe religion justifies the practice. In some cultures there exists the belief that a newborn child has elements of both sexes. In the male body the foreskin of the penis is considered to be the female element. In the female body the clitoris is considered to be the male element. Hence when the adolescent is reaching puberty, these elements are removed to make the indication of sex clear. The operation is most often carried out by female practitioners. Thus it has been attributed by some authors to a deep-rooted fear of elder women that the more attractive younger women might seduce away their husbands and thus leave them without support. Many Muslims believe that FGC is required by Islam. In fact, no form of genital modification and mutilation is mentioned in the Qur'an, but female circumcision is mentioned in several reliable hadiths[13]. Schools of Islamic law differ on whether the process is obligatory, recommended or permissibleGIF89am ? gfg)mpd+'J?|M)馢ԑ1ٳ鴳YI3\gKhGEHӴ؛C͉CԮxau8)Va1άDbj=ª}6ɕdE*#- (:ճzw;((4! ? , m @pH,Ȥrl:`JZجvzZ$aV&LhDPiB Sux4np4qnkvoxwkk] egi_>h<<30 ##:(-&!$99!9* 3322=2>>=2fh: :8 6(;` hC .\Gǎ{q$Ɏ=ڽP0E ۹3an@hXdlqFC2 Ւ>"G/&4@ր>Φe#&<0Wnл&XlpbE0JTȫU5T;>P1lA50i51h弑u,\ Ӫqo~Q(j s,4`a6h9&6A ժՇE)0 Mҥ%so8/E Vsy pVD3]S%uA`&GBxi<}$5"؛hǟaǡ/`s2g |