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| Is Allah literally in the sky? |
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| Siham |
| 10/08/05 at 13:25:19 |
| Is it permissible for a Muslim to believe that Allah is in the sky in literal sense? ©[i]Nuh Ha Mim Keller[/i] 1995 http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/inthesky.htm |
| 10/08/05 at 13:27:37 |
| Siham |
| Re: Is Allah literally in the sky? |
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| bhaloo |
| 10/08/05 at 14:24:14 |
| First of all Siham, you should fear Allah for spreading slander, and slander especially in the month of Ramadan!!! Normally such filth would be deleted here, but it will be an honor and privilege for me to defend the honor of the Muslims slandered. Unfortunately such a treatise will cover over 20 pages, so I'll just link as much as possible so the reader may see for himself. To put up an article that accuses sheikh ul Islam, Ibn Tamiyyah of being an anthromorphist is effectively calling him a kafir! See what Ramadan Boti (someone who is popular with sufis) said about Sheikh Ibn Tamiyyah: http://www.islaam.net/main/display.php?id=349&category=37 Here is a whole list of scholars (many of who are agreed upon by people following sufism, including Nuh Keller as being sheikhs of Islam) who called Sheikh Ibn Tamiyyah, sheikh ul Islam, and their defense of the great scholar: http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=69 As for where is Allah, here is what the 4 imaams said: Imaam Abu Hanifah Abu Muti' Al-Balkhi reported:"I asked Imaam Abu Hanifah about a person who says, 'I do not know whether my Rubb is, above the heavens or on earth?' Abu Hanifah, may Allaah grant him His mercy, said: 'A person who makes such a statement becomes an apostate because Allaah, the Exalted says, 'The Merciful has ascended above the 'Arsh, and the 'Arsh of Allaah is above His heavens'. I further asked Abu Hanifah, 'What if such a person admits, Allaah is above His 'Arsh, but exclaims, I do not know whether His 'Arsh is above the heavens or on earth'. Abu Hanifah responded: 'If he denies that the 'Arsh is above the heavens, he is an apostate." Sharhut-Tahawiyyah, p.288 If the person apostatizes by saying that he did not know where is the 'Arsh of Allaah, then by right a person who denies the Loftiness of Allaah altogether is definitely worse than an apostate. Imaam Maalik Abdullah bin Nafi' reported: Maalik bin Anas said:'Allaah is above the heavens, but His knowledge encompasses everything. Nothing escapes His knowledge.' Abdullah bin Ahmad, as-Sunnah, and others. Imaam Ash-Shafi'ee Imaam ash-Shafi'ee said:"The creed which I hold is the same creed the Muslims before me were holding, namely, the Testimony of Faith: "There is no god worthy of being worshipped except Allaah, that Muhammed is the Messenger of Allaah, and that Allaah is above His 'Arsh, above the heavens. He descends to the lowest heaven whenever He wishes."Al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyyah, Ibn al-Qayyim, p.93 Imaam ibn Khuzaimah, a Shafi'ite himself, said: "Whoever disacknowledges that Allaah is above His 'Arsh, above His seven heavens, and that He is separated from His creatures, is a Kafir, (unbeliever). Such person must be ordered to repent and disavow his belief, or else he must be beheaded and thrown on a garbage dump so that neither Ahlul-Qiblah nor Ahludth-dthimmah be annoyed by the foul odor of his carcass." Abu Bakr Muhammad at-Tamimi, a Shafi'ite Imaam of Naisaboor, said:"I do not pray behind a person who denies the attributes of Allaah and does not recognize that Allaah is above His 'Arsh." Imaam Ahmad He was asked: "Is Allaah above His 'Arsh, above the seventh heaven, separate from His creatures, and is His knowledge and power encompassing everything everywhere? He replied: 'Certainly, He is above His 'Arsh and nothing escapes His knowledge." Al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyyag, Ibn al-Qayyim, p.123. All of the above show that the entire Muslim ummah, in the past and present, is in unison regarding the belief in the Loftiness and Supremacy of Allaah, the Exalted. A lengthier article on this subject can be found here: Where is Allah http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=99 Sheikh Yassar Abu Ammar Qadhi put out a nice response to the misconceptions that the Asharis have here in regards to the attributes: http://s3.invisionfree.com/sunnipress/index.php?s=3bfd15c2bf35410d69010decf49b3127&showtopic=58 I advise Muslims to stay away from Nuh Keller's writings and his attacks on Muslims. One should examine where this man is getting his knowledge from and who his scholars are and the things they have said and done. Dr. Saleh devotes nearly 200 pages to this in his book: http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b4486.html |
| Re: Is Allah literally in the sky? |
|---|
| Siham |
| 10/08/05 at 15:21:45 |
| [quote author=bhaloo link=board=library;num=1128788719;start=0#1 date=10/08/05 at 14:24:14]First of all Siham, you should fear Allah for spreading slander, and slander especially in the month of Ramadan!!! Normally such filth would be deleted here, but it will be an honor and privilege for me to defend the honor of the Muslims slandered. Unfortunately such a treatise will cover over 20 pages, so I'll just link as much as possible so the reader may see for himself. To put up an article that accuses sheikh ul Islam, Ibn Tamiyyah of being an anthromorphist is effectively calling him a kafir! See what Ramadan Boti (someone who is popular with sufis) said about Sheikh Ibn Tamiyyah: http://www.islaam.net/main/display.php?id=349&category=37 Here is a whole list of scholars (many of who are agreed upon by people following sufism, including Nuh Keller as being sheikhs of Islam) who called Sheikh Ibn Tamiyyah, sheikh ul Islam, and their defense of the great scholar: http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=69 As for where is Allah, here is what the 4 imaams said: Imaam Abu Hanifah Abu Muti' Al-Balkhi reported:"I asked Imaam Abu Hanifah about a person who says, 'I do not know whether my Rubb is, above the heavens or on earth?' Abu Hanifah, may Allaah grant him His mercy, said: 'A person who makes such a statement becomes an apostate because Allaah, the Exalted says, 'The Merciful has ascended above the 'Arsh, and the 'Arsh of Allaah is above His heavens'. I further asked Abu Hanifah, 'What if such a person admits, Allaah is above His 'Arsh, but exclaims, I do not know whether His 'Arsh is above the heavens or on earth'. Abu Hanifah responded: 'If he denies that the 'Arsh is above the heavens, he is an apostate." Sharhut-Tahawiyyah, p.288 If the person apostatizes by saying that he did not know where is the 'Arsh of Allaah, then by right a person who denies the Loftiness of Allaah altogether is definitely worse than an apostate. Imaam Maalik Abdullah bin Nafi' reported: Maalik bin Anas said:'Allaah is above the heavens, but His knowledge encompasses everything. Nothing escapes His knowledge.' Abdullah bin Ahmad, as-Sunnah, and others. Imaam Ash-Shafi'ee Imaam ash-Shafi'ee said:"The creed which I hold is the same creed the Muslims before me were holding, namely, the Testimony of Faith: "There is no god worthy of being worshipped except Allaah, that Muhammed is the Messenger of Allaah, and that Allaah is above His 'Arsh, above the heavens. He descends to the lowest heaven whenever He wishes."Al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyyah, Ibn al-Qayyim, p.93 Imaam ibn Khuzaimah, a Shafi'ite himself, said: "Whoever disacknowledges that Allaah is above His 'Arsh, above His seven heavens, and that He is separated from His creatures, is a Kafir, (unbeliever). Such person must be ordered to repent and disavow his belief, or else he must be beheaded and thrown on a garbage dump so that neither Ahlul-Qiblah nor Ahludth-dthimmah be annoyed by the foul odor of his carcass." Abu Bakr Muhammad at-Tamimi, a Shafi'ite Imaam of Naisaboor, said:"I do not pray behind a person who denies the attributes of Allaah and does not recognize that Allaah is above His 'Arsh." Imaam Ahmad He was asked: "Is Allaah above His 'Arsh, above the seventh heaven, separate from His creatures, and is His knowledge and power encompassing everything everywhere? He replied: 'Certainly, He is above His 'Arsh and nothing escapes His knowledge." Al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyyag, Ibn al-Qayyim, p.123. All of the above show that the entire Muslim ummah, in the past and present, is in unison regarding the belief in the Loftiness and Supremacy of Allaah, the Exalted. A lengthier article on this subject can be found here: Where is Allah http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=99 Sheikh Yassar Abu Ammar Qadhi put out a nice response to the misconceptions that the Asharis have here in regards to the attributes: http://s3.invisionfree.com/sunnipress/index.php?s=3bfd15c2bf35410d69010decf49b3127&showtopic=58 I advise Muslims to stay away from Nuh Keller's writings and his attacks on Muslims. One should examine where this man is getting his knowledge from and who his scholars are and the things they have said and done. Dr. Saleh devotes nearly 200 pages to this in his book: http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b4486.html[/quote] Subhan'Allah wa Tala the sheikh did not call him a kafir, and we have to acknowledge his mistakes as the scholars have pointed out and he is notorious for standing up in a sermon and physically walking down the steps of the minbar and showing the audience that -- "Just as I do" – Allah SWT descends -- wa Auodubillah, there is indeed no denying or ignoring this bro. As Ibn Hajar as well as Ibn Batuta have reported this very incident Ibn Battûta, Rihla (1:110) and Ibn Hajar, al-Durar al-Kâmina (1:180). Furthermore, Ibn Taymiyya was in jail previous to Ibn Batuta's report for similar offenses. Ibn Tamiyyah’s mother interceded to the Qadi for his release to which it was obliged. Ibn Batuta then attended that infamous sermon and heard what he did. A maliki doctor rose up against this false claim and was beaten severely by Ibn Tamiyyah’s followers until a silken skull cap was uncovered. The followers beat him more and then presented him to the Qadi who imprisoned him. The other doctors objected to this treatment and presented their case to the amir who took it to the sultan with the case of the doctors against Ibn Taymiyya. Anyhow Ibn Taymiyya was then jailed again shortly after until his death, May Allah SWT have mercy on him. Lastly, I respect Ibn Taymiyya (and I suggest you do the same, and show some respect for our scholars at least) the point is here that he made some mistakes that certainly cannot be overlooked, which I particularly think that this approach to the Ibn Taymiyyah case was the fairest. http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp%3FHD%3D7%26ID%3D4851%26CATE%3D22 wassalaam. |
| 10/08/05 at 15:23:18 |
| Siham |
| Re: Is Allah literally in the sky? |
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| jannah |
| 10/08/05 at 15:52:06 |
| slm, i need for both of you to stop bringing up the same topic over and over again on the board. if you would like to have a discussion about sufism/salafism please do it through email and not on the board. again this is not the place to have debates about such subjects. also everyone, i'll ask you to please not post any articles that are about controversial subjects. sure they are part of islam and everyone is entitled to their ideas, but don't post them here on the message board because this is a community board and we would like to encourage togetherness and community and not devisiveness and differences. jazakamullahu khairan |
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