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| Pakarmy can'thelpsurvivers,toobusy killingMuslims for america |
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| abdullahcohn |
| 10/17/05 at 06:24:13 |
| Woeful response may deliver Musharraf his Katrina blow uploaded 16 Oct 2005 By Ahmed Rashid in Lahore The last time the Pakistani Army rode to the rescue of its citizens after a massive natural disaster, the result was a civil war and the loss of half the country. That was in 1970, when half a million people in what was then East Pakistan drowned as a result of typhoons and floods, and the army's delay in beginning a relief effort led to enormous public anger and the eventual creation of Bangladesh. The same army is once again in control of the country and of the desperately needed relief effort after an earthquake that in a breath has taken away 23,000 people, half of them children. Western governments and Pakistanis will be looking closely at the political fallout for President Pervez Musharraf, who remains a key Western ally, army chief, the supremo of the country and chief relief organiser. Will Musharraf, like President George Bush before him, have his Katrina moment, when citizens turn against their leader? For a country repeatedly facing monsoon floods, overflowing rivers, devastating storms and minor earthquakes, the army has been remarkably ill prepared to face the current crisis. Moreover, this is Azad Kashmir, where Pakistan has fought three wars with India, and invested heavily in military infrastructure to maintain 100,000 troops along the Line of Control. Even though Azad Kashmir is supposed to be a model of development to expose the poverty in Indian-held Kashmir, the actual investment in social welfare and infrastructure such as roads and bridges has been minimal. The issue here is all about how much Third World governments are prepared to invest in their own people and disaster preparedness. So far the army has been woefully slow in reacting to the disaster. Its much vaunted Crisis Management Cell - set up after September 11, 2001, run by army officers and modelled on the US's National Security Council - has itself been an abysmal disaster. Management on the ground has been superficial at best. One may well ask why the seventh largest army in the world is holding its hand out for helicopters and tents when Washington has supplied dozens of helicopters since September 11 and the country is one of the largest tent makers in the world. The army itself holds thousands of tents in stock, along with tens of thousands of tins of foodstuffs and blankets, which do not seem to have been released. Perhaps this is because the army continues to fight al-Qaeda remnants in Waziristan along the border with Afghanistan... Source: Telegraph UK |
| 10/17/05 at 06:28:55 |
| abdullahcohn |
| Re: Pakarmy can'thelpsurvivers,toobusy killingMusl |
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| panjul |
| 10/17/05 at 14:52:37 |
| [slm] One may well ask why the seventh largest army in the world is holding its hand out for helicopters and tents when Washington has supplied dozens of helicopters since September 11 and the country is one of the largest tent makers in the world. I dont know wether the Army has tents in stock or not. But certainly, in Lahore, we can't find tents since the day before yesterday. The market's apparently out. |
| Tents, blankets, medicine, surgeons, ... |
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| timbuktu |
| 10/19/05 at 07:45:02 |
| [slm] The question about the helicopters is a valid one. Pak army had only eight helicopters available. Why there weren't more, we may well ask. The much promised US helicopters, based in Afghanistan, were not moved even 48 hours after the promise was made. Tents and blankets have been bought out of the market. The need is in hundreds of thousands of tents, if not millions. Pakistan is the largest maker of tents in the world, and it cannot cope with the need. The entire world has been mobilised to provide tents, and yet there aren't enough. Two more jolts were felt today. fairly strong. Two occupied flats in the al-Mustafa Towers, next to Margalla Towers, reported to have developed cracks in floors and walls. Occupants of 30 flats who had moved in, were evecuated at 3:30 in the morning. |
| 10/19/05 at 09:19:59 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Pakarmy can'thelpsurvivers,toobusy killingMusl |
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| theOriginal |
| 10/19/05 at 09:00:26 |
| [slm] 1) 40-60% of Pakistan's national expenditure per annum since 1947 has been on the army. Yet we only have 12 (I read 12) helicopters. Brilliant. I am not one for airing scandalous news, but really...where has all the money gone? 2) That brings up the question: why oh why is the NAVAL HEADQUARTERS of Pakistan in Islamabad? Please let the paradox not be lost: NAVAL headquarters in a landlocked part of the country. 3) The biggest tragedy in the nation's history hit, and we fully mobilized our army after 3 days. (3 days, omg!!!) Note: I honestly think the Pakistani Army is great...I'm not too sure if anything would ever get done if we didn't have them around. But I would have expected a lot more... Oh and I have a pencil-thick crack in my bathroom. It's really freaky. Wasalaam. |
| Re: Pakarmy can'thelpsurvivers,toobusy killingMusl |
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| abdullahcohn |
| 10/19/05 at 11:01:11 |
| A scandernavian country provided Pakistan with alot of waterproof tents. these were taken by the army. |
| Re: Pakarmy can'thelpsurvivers,toobusy killingMusl |
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| Falcon_boy |
| 10/19/05 at 12:57:03 |
| [slm] To add more sugar I must disclose the fact that at the moment the Pak army is filtering all the imported aid goods to its camp and forwarding only the one which is not of any use to them. I am visiting almost all the hospitals in Islamabad regularly as a Volunteer and have noticed that all the aid supply is coming from people just like you and me , nothing is coming from Govt. Ma'salama Mohammad Ali |
| Re: Pakarmy can'thelpsurvivers,toobusy killingMusl |
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| abdullahcohn |
| 10/20/05 at 08:00:20 |
| yes, people are giving aid while the government is stealing aid. |
| Re: Pakarmy can'thelpsurvivers,toobusy killingMusl |
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| bhaloo |
| 10/20/05 at 21:07:40 |
| [slm] When we donate to relief agencies in the west does the money go to the government of Pakistan or does it go directly to the people? I thought Islamic Relief actually sends out stuff to the people directly? ??? |
| Re: Pakarmy can'thelpsurvivers,toobusy killingMusl |
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| theOriginal |
| 10/20/05 at 22:53:37 |
| [slm] Yeah...NGOs are a separate entity from the government (hence the name)...they are on the scene, doing relief work themselves. I think what everyone is referring to is the "President's Relief Fund" being flashed all over the world. I would really like to see the accounting ledger on that. I wonder if they'll ever make it available? Wasalaam. |
| Re: Pakarmy can'thelpsurvivers,toobusy killingMusl |
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| timbuktu |
| 10/21/05 at 06:48:11 |
| [slm] [quote]The last time the Pakistani Army rode to the rescue of its citizens after a massive natural disaster, the result was a civil war and the loss of half the country. That was in 1970, when half a million people in what was then East Pakistan drowned as a result of typhoons and floods, and the army's delay in beginning a relief effort led to enormous public anger and the eventual creation of Bangladesh.[/quote] That is absolutely wrong. The creation of Bangladesh was due to a collection of factors over the yearsincluding the fact that the Army Chief Yahya Khan did not want to give up his Pesidency, Bhutto wanted Prime Ministership, and a lot more. The relief effort of the Pak army in the wake of the cyclone had nothing to do with the creation of Bangladesh. Pak army has been and is working for Earthquake relief. From what I heard, they have used up their existing store of high-quality tents for relief. There just aren't enough to go round. The problem with the Pak army is that it doesn't have enough equipment for a disaster of this magnitude. We must not forget that the army has suffered a lot, too in this disaster. The Presidential relief Fund will not be entirely eaten up by sharks. A great deal will go through, and it is only the government that will be able to build the infrastructure, so aid for that will have to go through the government anyway. NGOs can help in relief to individuals, and on a small scale in building some houses, schools and hospitals. Here is one idea where private citizens and NGOs can really help. There is lack of technical knowledge on earthquake resistant affordable structures. ALl the house that are left standing need structural testing, evaluation and upgrading. I know I want to do that for my house. There are some renowned architectural firms, but they are very expensive, and I do not know if they have the equipment for qauke resistance tests. Are there any professionals in this field, are they are willing to come here and provide information and such services to people? JO, where is the crack located. On the ground floor, or the first floor? |
| 10/21/05 at 06:50:20 |
| timbuktu |
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