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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| RE:11 Qualities |
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| Siham |
| 10/29/05 at 17:22:40 |
| [slm] Eveyone on this planet feels as important as 10 people, this is why it is overcrowded" "When love has been removed their can be no more faith" "With complete certainty of faith you can walk on water" "Sincerity kills hypocrisy" "If people do not establish their own peace, common peace is impossible" "No one throws a stone at a barren tree" "A dog has 11 qualities, which if one realized would indeed make him a awliya." - Hazrat Syed Sultan Nazim Adil al Haqqani (orginally from huzoor saydina ghaus al azaam) Bhaloo wrote: [quote] that is an inappropriate thing to be saying. to compare awliya with dogs is insulting. ask yourself this, would you like to be compared to a dog? obviously not, so then why put up something like that? you have to be careful of where and who you narrate your information from. the naqbashandi-haqqani sufi tariqah is a very extreme organization and there are countless articles out there exposing their extremism, not to mention that there are people that have had personal experiences with them and seen first hand what their fanatacism has done. Here's just one link of many links out there (some even have audios) http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/sufi_naqshabandi_unveiled.htm May Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala) protect the Muslims from such extremism. AMEEN! My recommendation to you is to stick to narrating from the companions (ra), or the Prophet (SAW).[/quote] |
| Re: RE:11 Qualities |
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| Siham |
| 10/29/05 at 17:23:26 |
| [slm] Dear Brother, We are all here to learn and exchange valuable information, so if you don’t understand something please just simply ask and don’t attack your fellow Muslims or delete their posts. Because when Muslims deal with one another, they should incline towards clemency and mercy, not wrath and severity. Furthermore, for one to truly understand the discourse of sayyidina shaykh abdula qadir jilano analogy, one must be familiar with shaykh abdul qadir jilani's work, which I am unworthy to speak of really. http://www.al-baz.com/shaikhabdalqadir/about/about2/about2.html wassalaam. PS. And please do not listen to the rubbish that some people write about him insha’Allah. |
| 10/29/05 at 17:35:40 |
| Siham |
| Re: RE:11 Qualities |
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| bhaloo |
| 10/30/05 at 09:40:19 |
| [quote author=Siham link=board=library;num=1130617360;start=0#1 date=10/29/05 at 17:23:26] We are all here to learn and exchange valuable information, so if you don’t understand something please just simply ask and don’t attack your fellow Muslims or delete their posts. Because when Muslims deal with one another, they should incline towards clemency and mercy, not wrath and severity. [/quote] We are not on this board to exchange fabricated information, and things that are not in accordance with Islam. To spread innovative matters and things from innovators is a very serious matter in Islam. It is very important to realize this and becareful from where you cite from. Something to ponder: The curse of Allaah, the Angels and all of Mankind are upon the one who accommodates an innovator. -- Hadith of the Prophet, Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam. Found in Bukhaari and Muslim. You came on this board and spread slander and lies about Sheikh ul Islam Ibn Tamiyyah accusing him of anthromorphism, which is effectively calling him a kafir. I'm not going to sit back and tolerate such behavior, especially in ramadan. And you cited from a scholar that wasn't even there (or who even wrote such an account, it was from a 3rd party attributing it to the scholar), and from a time period when Sheikh Ibn Tamiyyah was in jail and couldn't have possibly even delivered a khutbah in a masjid during that time. And in that 20 page discourse I put up, I mentioned these things in greater detail and the opinon of the scholars (in fact there is a whole book entitled, the scholars who called Sheikh Ibn Tamiyyah the Sheikh of Islam). So please tell us where your concept of mercy is? And where did you show mercy to the sheikh? I am very upset about this slander that you did, especially in ramadan. [quote] Furthermore, for one to truly understand the discourse of sayyidina shaykh abdula qadir jilano analogy, one must be familiar with shaykh abdul qadir jilani's work, which I am unworthy to speak of really. [/quote] No one here is attacking Sheikh Jilani, don't lie and make things up. Some extremists and later day followers of the shaikh have many misconceptions and have gone to an extreme when the reality is that they have nothing to do with Sheikh Jilani. I believe it was Sheikh ul Islam Ibn Tamiyyah that referred to Sheikh Jilani as his sheikh or at least one of his sheikhs. When describing Sheikh Jilani, Sheikh Munajjidd said: Shaykh ‘Abd al-Qaadir (may Allaah have mercy on him) is one of the imaams of Islam. He attained a position of leadership over the Muslims of his time, in knowledge, good deeds, issuing fatwas and other aspects of religion. He was one of the greatest shaykhs of his time, enjoining adherence to the sharee’ah, enjoining what is good, forbidding what is evil, and giving that precedence over all else. He was an ascetic (zaahid) and a preacher, in whose gatherings many people repented. Allaah caused him to be well-liked by people and his virtue became widely-known – may Allaah bestow abundant mercy upon him. Shaykh ‘Abd al-Qaadir was a follower, not an innovator. He followed the way of the righteous salaf and in his books he encouraged people to follow the salaf; he also enjoined that upon his followers. He used to tell people not to follow innovations in religion, and he stated clearly that he was opposed to the ahl al-kalaam (“Islamic philosophers”) such as the Ash’aris and their ilk. Shaykh ‘Abd al-Qaadir agreed with Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah – the followers of truth – concerning all issues of ‘aqeedah (belief), namely Tawheed, faith, Prophethood, and the Last Day. |
| 10/30/05 at 10:07:20 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: RE:11 Qualities |
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| Siham |
| 10/31/05 at 10:05:11 |
| bhaloo wrote: [quote]We are not on this board to exchange fabricated information, and things that are not in accordance with Islam. To spread innovative matters and things from innovators is a very serious matter in Islam. It is very important to realize this and becareful from where you cite from.[/quote] [slm] Well, first of all I would really appreciate it, if you could please kindly point out where exactly the fabrications are on these two following quotes: [quote] 1) If someone's state does not lift you up, and his words do not lead you to Allah. Then do not keep his company. It may well be that you are in a bad state, But to keep company with, someone worse than you would allow to see good in yourself. - Ibn Ata'illah [/quote] [quote] 2) Know that tasawwuf is two things: Truthfulness with Allah Almighty and good conduct with people. Anyone who practices these two things is a Sufi. Truthfulness with Allah is that the servant puts an end to his ego's shares in the divine command. Good conduct with people is to not prefer one's demands over theirs as long as their demands are within the parameters of the Law. Whoever approves of the contravention of the Law or contravenes it can never be a Sufi, and if he claims he is, he is lying. - Imam al-Ghazali on Tasawwuf (translated by Sidi Gibril Haddad) [/quote] for the record they were both deleted by you with no explanations whatsoever as why you deleted them. bhaloo wrote: [quote]you cited from a scholar that wasn't even there (or who even wrote such an account, it was from a 3rd party attributing it to the scholar)[/quote] Secondly, the whole issue with Ibn Tamiyyah claim was previously discussed here; http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=library;action=display;num=1128788719 So, please lets stay within the topic of discussion insha’Allah. wassalaam. |
| Re: RE:11 Qualities |
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| bhaloo |
| 11/01/05 at 00:17:32 |
| [quote author=Siham link=board=library;num=1130617360;start=0#3 date=10/31/05 at 10:05:11] [slm] Well, first of all I would really appreciate it, if you could please kindly point out where exactly the fabrications are on these two following quotes: [/quote] I've already addressed this matter in earlier threads, and if you didn't bother to read the book I mentioned or the articles I suggested then you are ignoring the truth. And furthermore, what part of Jannah's post in an earlier thread did you not understand? jannah said: [quote] if you would like to have a discussion about sufism/salafism please do it through email and not on the board. again this is not the place to have debates about such subjects. also everyone, i'll ask you to please not post any articles that are about controversial subjects. sure they are part of islam and everyone is entitled to their ideas, but don't post them here on the message board because this is a community board and we would like to encourage togetherness and community and not devisiveness and differences. [/quote] One needs to follow the rules of the board. [quote] Secondly, the whole issue with Ibn Tamiyyah claim was previously discussed here; http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/madina/YaBB.pl?board=library;action=display;num=1128788719 So, please lets stay within the topic of discussion insha’Allah. [/quote] You didn't even bother to read what I put up in that thread, because it addressed the point you made after!!! Here is what you said: Siham: [quote] Subhan'Allah wa Tala the sheikh did not call him a kafir, and we have to acknowledge his mistakes as the scholars have pointed out and he is notorious for standing up in a sermon and physically walking down the steps of the minbar and showing the audience that -- "Just as I do" – Allah SubHana Wa Ta`ala descends -- wa Auodubillah, there is indeed no denying or ignoring this bro. As Ibn Hajar as well as Ibn Batuta have reported this very incident Ibn Battûta, Rihla (1:110) and Ibn Hajar, al-Durar al-Kâmina (1:180). [/quote] The falsehood of this can be seen from many angles: 1.This contradicts the madhab of ibn Taymiyyah concerning the Attributes of Allaah - the Most High - which was the same as the madhab of the Salaf, being built upon the saying of Allaah, ‘there is nothing like Him, He is the Hearing and the Seeing’. 2.Ibn Taymiyyah says in ‘at-Tadmuriyyah’ (pg. 20), "It is a must to affirm that which Allaah affirms for himself, whilst negating any likeness to Him with His creation…Whosoever says: His Knowledge is like my knowledge, His Power is like my power, or Love like my love, or Pleasure like my pleasure, or Hand like my hand, or Ascending like my ascending, or His Nuzool (descent) is like my descent - then he has resembled and likened Allaah to the creation. Rather it is a must to affirm (Allaah’s Attributes) without resemblance, and to negate (what Allaah negates for Himself), without ta`teel (divesting Allaah of His Attributes)." 3.Likewise he said in ‘Majmoo` al-Fataawaa’ (5/262), "whosoever considers the Attributes to be like the attributes of the creation - such that Istawaa of Allaah is like the ascending of the creation, or His Nuzool is like the descending of the creation, or other than that - then he is a deviated innovator." And he repeats this principle over and over again in his works. 4.It is not possible that ibn Batuta witnessed ibn Taymiyyah deliver this speech, since ibn Batuta clearly states in his ‘Rihla’ (1/102) that he entered Damascus on the 9th of Ramadhaan in the year 728H. However Shaykh al-Islaam was - before, during and after that time - in prison. Ibn Katheer states in ‘al-Bidaayah wan Nihaayah’ (14/135) that ibn Taymiyyah was imprisoned on the 6th of Sha’baan in the year 728H and remained there until his death on the 20th of Dhul Qa’dah 728H [These dates are endorsed in ‘al-A`laam al-Uliyyah’ (pg.84) of al-Bazzaar, and ‘Sahdharaat adh-Dhahab’ (6/80) of ibn al-Amaad.] 5.Ibn Batuta, may Allaah have mercy upon him, did not write the book ‘Rihla’ with his own hand, rather it was collected by Muhammad bin Jazee al-Kalbee who writes in the introduction to ‘Rihla’, "and I have quoted the meaning of the words of Shaykh Abu Abdullaah (ibn Batuta) with words that give the meaning that he intended…." 6.Ibn Batuta started his journey on the 2nd of Rajab 725H and completed it on the 3rd of Dhul Hijjah 756H and he did not write anything down, rather after this journey he dictated to al-Kalbee the events of his journey from memory. Hence the door is open for mistakes, and it is highly likely that ibn Batuta did not witness what he claimed to have witnessed, but merely conveyed the accusations that were in vogue at that time against Shaykh al-Islaam from his enemies. 7.Ibn Batuta himself was opposed to ibn Taymiyyah, for he states in ‘Rihla’ (1/309), ‘and from the great Hanbalee Legal Jurists of Damascus was ibn Taymiyyah, except that he was lacking in his intellect.’ Hence it would have been easy for him to take on board the accusations without verifying them. 8.Ibn Taymiyyah has a separate book concerning Allaah’s Descending called, ‘Sharh Hadeeth an-Nuzool’. In it is no trace whatsoever of the anthropomorphic beliefs that he has been falsely accused of. 9.Ibn Taymiyyah was not the khateeb of the aforementioned masjid, rather it was Qaadee al-Qazwaynee. Ibn Batuta himself says in his ‘Rihla’ (1/107), "and at the time of my entering it (Damascus) their Imaam was Qaadee Jalaal ad-Deen Muhammad bin Abd ar-Rahmaan al-Qazwaynee from the great legal jurists, and he was the khateeb of the masjid…." 10.Ibn Taymiyyah did not used to give admonitions and reminders to the people from the minbar, rather he used to sit upon a chair. Al-Haafidh adh-Dhahabee said, "and he became very famous and well-known, and he started giving tafseer of the Might Book from his memory, on the days of Jumu`ah, sitting upon a chair." And ibn Batuta states in his ‘Rihla’ (1/108), "it was the habit of the scholars of hadeeth to read books of hadeeth on a raised chair." And a raised chair in the Arabic language is called, ‘minbar’. [‘Lisaan al-Arb’ (5/189)] 11.This is why ibn Hajr mentioned in his ‘Durar al-Kaaminah’, "and he used to speak on the minbar in the way of the explainers of fiqh and hadeeth, and he used to mention in an hour, what another was unable to mention in many sittings, as if the sciences were displayed in front of his eyes" Meaning by this that he sat on a chair as done by the scholars of hadeeth. Siham said, there is indeed no denying or ignoring this bro. Clearly the points above take apart Siham's slander of the sheikh. When someone compares Allah to His creation, they are denying the bolded verse in the Quran below from Surah Ikhlas: Say He is Allah, The One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not, Nor is He begotten; And there is none Like unto Him. (Al Qur’an 112:1-4) And anyone that denies ANY part of the Quran, can not be considered a Muslim. And this is what Siham was doing when she attacked Sheikh ul Islam Ibn Tamiyyah. She is saying that the Sheikh denies this verse in the Quran, which is complete slander. Badruddeen al-'Aynee al-Hanafee (d.841H), author of the famous commentary on Saheeh al-Bukhaaree, wrote in his commendation of ar-Radd al-Waafir of ibn Naasir ad-Deen ad-Dimashqee ash-Shaafi'ee (d.842H), an explanation of the ruling on one who pronounces ibn Taymiyyah to be a disbeliever: "Since this is the case, it is binding upon those in authority that they punish this ignorant trouble maker - who said that ibn Taymiyyah was a kaafir!! - with various types of punishment, severe beating and long imprisonment. Whoever says to a Muslim: 'O kaafir,' then what he has said returns upon him, especially if it is the like of such a filthy one speaking against this scholar, particularly since he is deceased, and there is a prohibition recorded in the Sharee'ah from speaking ill of the deceased Muslims, and Allaah will manifest the truth." Al-'Aynee also said: "Whoever says ibn Taymiyyah is a kaafir then he is in reality himself a kaafir, and the one who accuses him of heresy is himself a heretic. How is this possible when his works are widely available and there is no hint of deviation or dissension contained therein." This commendation is established as being authored by al-'Aynee, may Allaah have mercy upon him, despite the attempt of some to discredit it. It is mentioned by al-Haafidh as-Sakhaawee (student of al-Haafidh ibn Hajar) in ad-Dawl al-Laamee (10/13), who described it as: "Defending ibn Taymiyyah to the utmost." Here is just one of the beautiful and truthful things a great scholar like Imaam Suyutee said (it should be noted that someone is Sheikh ul Islam can not be considered an innovator): Imaam Suyutee: As-Suyutee quotes from az-Zamlakaanee that he said, "our Master, our Shaykh, the Imaam, the Scholar, the Unique (al-Awhad), the Haafidh, the Mujtahid, the Ascetic, the Worshipper (Aabid), the Example, the Imaam of the Imaams, the example for the Nation, the sign of the scholars, the inheritor of the Prophets, the Last of the Mujtahids, unique (Awhad) scholar of the Religion, the Blessing for Islaam, the Proof of the Scholars (A`laam), the proof of the Mutakallimeen, the effacer of the innovators, endowed with exalted and amazing sciences, the Reviver of the Sunnah. The one by whom Allaah has greatly favoured us with, and established the proof with against His enemies. .Taqee ad-Deen ibn Taymiyyah." Then as-Suyutee follows this up by saying, "I have quoted this biography from the handwriting of the Allaamah, the unique individual of his time, Shaykh Kamaal ad-Deen az-Zamlakaanee, may Allaah have mercy on him who used to say, 'one who had more memorised than him has not been seen in the last five hundred years.'" ['al-Ashbaah wa an-Nadhaa'ir an-Nahwiyyah' (3/681), see also 'Dhail alaa Tabaqaat al-Hanaabila' (2/392-393)] As-Suyutee said in the course of discussing his biography, "Shaykh al-Islaam, the Haafidh, the Faqeeh, the Mujtahid, the distinguished Mufassir, the rarity of his time, Scholar of the Ascetics" ['Tabaqaat al-Huffaadh' (pg. 516 no. 1144), and 'al-Asbaah wa al-Nadhaa'ir' (3/683) of as-Suyutee.] |
| 11/01/05 at 01:03:14 |
| bhaloo |
| Re: RE:11 Qualities |
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| Siham |
| 11/01/05 at 01:55:33 |
| [slm] Bro, I am not questioning you what sister jannah said, but simply WHY you deleted the quotes, were they fabricated? Were they not in according to the Religion of Islam? To say so is the usual swipe you take upon others by twisting words. You are good at that. If you wish to cast personal aspersions about me or why I post what I post, I will revert to my inquiries concerning matters you have shown discomfort within the past. Debate the issue, not the person. Otherwise, you might find your own words coming back to haunt you. Hence, I can ask you the same question, what part of jannah’s post didn’t you understand properly? She clearly stated:[quote] “please do not post any articles that are about controversial subjects.” "I need for both of you to stop bringing up the same topic over and over again on the board. if you would like to have a discussion about sufism/salafism please do it through email and not on the board. again this is not the place to have debates about such subjects."[/quote] As I’ve said earlier we have discussed this issue before, if you can recall you did MM [i](Medina Message)[/i] me on this, I honestly do not know why you are so eager in bringing up this over and over again, what's your point? I’m simply lost as to what benefit it brings, since it usually filled with sarcastic attacks and digging matters up again and again. Are you articulating that Sh. Nuh Keller is not a qualified Scholar to address this subject matter? However, if you wish to manipulate the matter more or play with words-- please be my quest. But I’d suggest you practice what you preach, before you get your account deleted. wassalaam. |
| 11/01/05 at 03:52:44 |
| Siham |
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