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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| How would you respond to this? |
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| Caraj |
| 11/15/05 at 23:56:23 |
| Assalaam Allaikum In talking with people whose only knowledge about Islam is 911 and the war in Iraq and what they hear on TV How would you answer your neighbor next door if he were to ask you: (Please note, this is a true question from a true American Non Muslims, please, when you post give or refuse permission for me to post your response in another forum with no names, thank you) Why have I heard people who study the islamic religion quote verses that order them to kill anyone who is not muslim? We are in WWlll and some prefer to be in denial. Islam is a violent religion and some day you will turn of the news and hear that there has been a nuclear disaster in a major US city killing thousands or millions. Of course, you will blame the US government for not being more understanding of the muslims. This is a true question from a person on another frum I belong to who has given me their permission to post this. Please note if I have your permission, I will copy and paste and post your answers, no identifying names or such will be on it Salaams and thank you It would be great if both American and NOn Amrican Muslims could answer this for this person. |
| Re: How would you respond to this? |
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| jannah |
| 11/16/05 at 00:21:39 |
| Hi, I'm American Muslim and you cannot quote any verse or text out of context and try to say that is Islam. I could quote you tons of verses from the Bible and Old Testament that make it seem like Christianity and Judaism are violent, ugly religions. Does Christianity teach those things? Does Judaism? So please give the same respect to a religion that has a billion followers the world over. NOTHING in Islam teaches killing or violence towards innocent people. What some peope claiming to be Muslims do is another story. We cannot control world politics and again unfortunately we cannot control what people do. The best we can do is teach nonMuslims AND Muslims what Islam is really about and that is peace and submission to God Thanks and take care, jannah |
| 11/16/05 at 00:22:38 |
| jannah |
| Re: How would you respond to this? |
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| bhaloo |
| 11/16/05 at 02:31:44 |
| [slm] [quote author=azizah link=board=madrasa;num=1132113383;start=0#0 date=11/15/05 at 23:56:23] How would you answer your neighbor next door if he were to ask you: (Please note, this is a true question from a true American Non Muslims, please, when you post give or refuse permission for me to post your response in another forum with no names, thank you) Why have I heard people who study the islamic religion quote verses that order them to kill anyone who is not muslim?[/quote] I would quote from him from the Quran, the following verse: Quran 60:8 Interpretation of the meaning: Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. I think that pretty much sums it up. |
| Re: How would you respond to this? |
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| timbuktu |
| 11/16/05 at 11:23:40 |
| [slm] This is a good rebuttal of the misunderstandings/ misquotes of the "Killer verses". http://www.load-islam.com/c/rebuttals/Misquoted |
| Re: How would you respond to this? |
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| sal |
| 11/16/05 at 14:37:10 |
| Islam does not say kill non Moslems and We Moslems do not agree with those who use the Islam as an excuse to achieve the support of MUTAMASLIMEEN (so called Moslems)for any fanatic act they commit or any verses like that you have heard . we on the contrary blame them for this Any one who is not an enemy (fighting you face to face ) is not allowed to be killed For instance ,the son or wife of an enemy is not an enemy if they are innocent and not involved in a direct fight. Thus, they are not allowed to be killed Any way, you can hear different things from different people But islam says only one thing so , If you want to make sure what is said is true you should to try to find from the source itself( the quran ) which is so easy to find and read We can not rely on what we hear before we make sure we have also seen with our eyes so that we can get to a clear cut evidence what we hear matches what we have seen We can not also blame an author if the reader of his book did not understand what is written there or wants to forge . If we face such thing we need to read the book itself isn’t it? So in the book if Islam (quran ) it says no kill the non Moslems And the Moslems who did not understand or the so called Moslems who intentionally are using this for a personal goal , they say kill the non Moslems Which one is true ? Just Read the source |
| Re: How would you respond to this? |
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| Siham |
| 11/16/05 at 18:44:18 |
| Assalamu Alaikum, Dear Azizah, Indeed Islam is one thing and Muslims are another at this point and I think its completely understandable for them to have these questions, well its the lack of religion in religious people is what bring confusion to people's mind -- and religion is blamed when in reality the religious people are to blame. I would probably recommend this book “Man and the Universe – An Islamic Perspective” Man here means, Human Being. Its bit funny because in Arabic Man is translated as Insan = Human Being, in English:Man = Male (and they say that Muslims are discriminates against women) Anyways, Masha'Allah Dr. Mostafa al Badawi Is a Master of the outward and the inward scientist of Islam, http://store.yahoo.com/islamicbookstore-com/b7520.html So, the balance of the inward and the outward of religion are extremely important, which is actually our biggest problem that we are facing at the moment, because when religion is only practiced outwardly without any inward reality it becomes ugly. I hope this helps insha'Allah, wassalaam. |
| 11/25/05 at 19:03:32 |
| Siham |
| Re: How would you respond to this? |
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| Fozia |
| 11/17/05 at 02:04:23 |
| [slm] People who have never met a Muslim tend to think we quote the passage allowing us to defend ourselves because it is the most oft quoted (out of context may I add) passage of the Quran in the media. There is also the bit in the Quran which says Someone who takes a life is like one who has killed all of humanity (oh OK this is really badly quoted could someone straighten it out for me please?). That particular quote has been repeated and repeated by Imams and Muslims since 9/11 but the media prefer to make us look like bloodthirsty savages...all the better to justify the unjustifiable mass slaughter of our women and children. Nobody is ever going to turn on the TV to find a nuclear fall out in the US, because the only people wiuth nuclear weapons (or weapons of mass destruction) are the US. And Israel, and South Korea, India and Pakistan. So unless the States are going to bomb themselves I don't see it happening any time soon, as they don't tend to mess with people who are evenly matched with themselves, they tend to prefer to stomp on the weak and defenceless. Wassalaam |
| 11/17/05 at 02:05:45 |
| Fozia |
| Re: How would you respond to this? |
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| Siham |
| 11/25/05 at 19:00:39 |
| [color=Black]Islamic Jihad - Jihad in the Way of Allah As-Sayyid Al-Habib‘Ali Al-Jifry Jihad and the Middle Way Anyone who makes the claim that he wants to serve the Deen yet is not thinking about jihad in the way of Allah, either has no understanding (of jihad) or he is not a truthful and sincere person. However, concerning the issue of jihad, people have gone to two extremes, both of which are mistaken. One group understood from the concept of jihad that it is necessary to view all the kuffar as those whom we must raise the sword or rifle to kill. The other group understands from the concept of jihad that we must be gentle, affectionate, and love all of them, and by doing such we would be “struggling” (i.e. making “jihad”) with them to bring them back to Allah and His Deen. Obviously, both groups have fallen into error. In reality, we are not a people whose mission is to kill the kuffar, nor are we a people who love the kuffar unrestrictedly. When it is time for fighting, we do not fight except those who, by doing so, we would be serving Allah alone (not our passions or personal agendas). Sayyidina Ali (may Allah honor his face) was fighting a kafir in one of the battles. During the battle Sayyidna Ali knocked him down and raised his sword to kill him. As soon as the kafir knew that he was going to be killed he spat in Sayyidna Ali’s face, so immediately Sayyidna Ali left him and went on his way. He was later asked, “Why did you leave him when Allah clearly gave you power over him?!” Sayyidna Ali replied, “I was fighting him for the sake of Allah, and when he spat in my face I feared that if I killed him it would have been out of personal revenge and spite.” From this we understand that it is obligatory that we differentiate between fighting people who are our own personal enemies and others whom we fight because they are the enemies of Allah. If a believer is forced to fight a kafir, he fights him not because the kafir hates him, because the kafir is conspiring against him, because the kafir wants to overcome him, rather, he fights him only because he is an enemy to Allah, the time to fight has come, and the command from Allah has been given. On the other hand, we have those who say, “We must love the kuffar, be kind with them, and esteem them. They are nice people and they have a lot of good in them.” People who say this have mixed truth with falsehood, just as those who say they want to kill all the kuffar, without understanding or differentiation, have also mixed truth with falsehood. It is impossible for a true believer to love a kafir: “You will not find people who believe in Allah and the Last Day having love for anyone who opposes Allah and His Messenger” (Qur’an 58-21). With this said, we do love goodness for them. There is a clear difference between loving them and loving goodness for them. If you say you love them then you are claiming that you love their essence (thaat) that you interact with in front of you, yet the believer doesn’t love any essence except the essence of Allah (Thaatul-llah), the Mighty and Majestic. If you love the good qualities in them while desiring that the possessor of these qualities is saved from the fire, and uses them in the service of Allah, while looking at them with the eye of mercy and the eye of desiring salvation for them, because you know that this pleases Allah, then in this case you have understood how to interact with them. So we view all the kuffar as being, firstly, the creation of Allah. And as Muslims, we love Allah’s creation. Therefore, we do not love the kafir, rather, we love Allah’s creation (suna’ Allah). We view them as being a means for our spiritual transaction with Allah; a means for our drawing nearer to Allah. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “For Allah to guide one person (to Islam) through you is greater than the whole world and all that is in it.” Hence, through this balance do we interact with them upon the foundation of having mercy for them, compassion for them, and a desire to try to save them from the fire. This is the only way we should view our interaction with them. We do not esteem the influential one amongst them because he can benefit us in our da’wah (as a kafir), nor are we generous with the needy amongst them because we love them in themselves, rather, we deal with the influential, the poor, the sick, and the young amongst them with mercy, and through mercy, because this is the way that Allah loves. The way we enter discourse with them should be in ways that their intellects can understand, using means that they like and are familiar with, as long as it is not prohibited in the Sacred Law. This is not because those means are the only means, but rather, because they are means that Allah loves. So if the time comes that it is more pleasing to Allah that we use another type of means, with some of them, then we do not hesitate for even one second to abandon the old method and to use the new method. The principle is that we are expansive and inclusive of everyone, merciful with everyone, loving and wanting goodness for everyone, from societies to leaders, from Muslims to kafirs. Then if a situation arose that calls us to deal with sternness, even if it reached the level of fighting, then we do not allow our previous ways of mercy and gentleness to delay that which Allah has commanded. One of the sons of Abu Bakr As-Siddiq, may Allah be pleased with him, did not become a Muslim while they were in Mecca, and as you know, the affection of a father to his son is much greater then the affection of a son to his father. In Mecca, Sayyidina Abu Bakr tried with love and gentleness to convince his son as to the veracity of Islam. He used the best and loftiest means to try to bring him over to Islam, yet Allah had not decreed for him to become a Muslim just yet. Sayyidina Abu Bakr made Hijrah and later went to fight in the battle of Badr. This son of his also went out on the day of Badr, yet he was with the kuffar. The son was trying his best to avoid his father so they would not have to fight each other. Later, when his son accepted Islam, he said to his father, “Oh my father, on the day of Badr (when I was a kafir) I was avoiding you so we wouldn’t have to fight.” Sayyidina Abu Bakr replied to him, “As for me, if I met you on that day I would have killed you.” What is the reason behind this? This intricate point is necessary for us to understand. When the action of the son wasn’t based on servitude to Allah, but rather, was based on compassion (for his father), and his going out to battle was only for glory, honor, and nationalistic goals, this was how he acted. His actions were a slave to his emotions. On the other hand, the actions of Sayyidina Abu Bakr (in Mecca) and his love and compassion were not for himself, but for the sake of his Lord. So when the time came that he had to serve Allah by fighting against his son, he didn’t waiver, even if it meant his own son’s death. We are in need of this criterion in establishing the correct concept of jihad with the kuffar. Therefore, the understanding of jihad is to establish the means for the guidance and salvation of the kuffar, not merely to just fight them. Fighting them happens in a few cases, and the goal behind it is to save others from the oppression of the ones who are preventing the guidance from spreading. We do not fight out of revenge and spite. The Muslim doesn’t fight because the kafir is my (personal) enemy, because the kafir is conspiring against me, because the kafir has killed and slaughtered other Muslims. The Muslim fights the kafir because he has prevented and has become a barrier for the guidance to reach others. Again, the Muslim doesn’t fight out of revenge and only because the enemy has killed other Muslims. Think about what is being said deeply! The Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, when he entered Mecca, didn’t avenge for the killings of the Muslims on the day of Uhud., even though Allah established him over the kuffar on that day of the great Conquest (the Fath). These disbelievers in Mecca were the same ones who killed his companions and members of his own family! These were the same people who barred the guidance from reaching others. These were the same people who ripped open the chest and stomach of Sayyidina Hamza (the uncle and companion of the Blessed Prophet, peace be upon him). These were the same people who ate from the liver of Sayyidina Hamza, may Allah be blessed with him. And what is more amazing is that those who actually conspired to kill Hamza (Hind and Wahshi), their Islam was accepted by the Prophet, peace and blessing be upon him, and he didn’t kill either of them even after their accepting of the faith. If we were to understand that the purpose of fighting against the kuffar is to avenge for spilt Muslim blood then it would have been befitting for the Prophet, peace be upon him, to command the killing of Wahshi and Hind right when he entered Mecca. But the issue with the Muslims is not one of revenge, it is an issue of guidance and the spreading of its light. The Muslim is the “letter of guidance” sent to humanity from Allah (al-Muslim bareed hidayat-illah ila al-khalq). So when the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, saw that there was hope in them being guided he said, “Go, for verily you are free.” And this is how our interaction must be. The day I meet with an enemy soldier off the battle field, who killed Muslims in Afghanistan, and I sense that he may want guidance, then I will treat him with the utmost of mercy. This is what we MUST understand. So our ultimate and primary mission in jihad is their guidance, even while we might be (physically) fighting them! All this is clearly understood in the beautiful story where our Blessed Messenger, peace and blessings be upon him, got upset with Usamah ibn Zaid, the beloved, the son of the beloved (he was named this because the Prophet, peace be upon him, loved him greatly). Usamah was out on the battle field fighting the enemy. During the heat of the battle one of the enemies slipped and fell, so Usamah lifted his sword to strike him. Immediately the enemy shouted out “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammad Rasul-lullah,” yet, Usamah struck and killed the man anyway. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, heard of this and began to greatly blame and censure Usamah saying, “Did you kill him after he said it (the Shahadah)!?” Usamah replied, “Oh Messenger of Allah, he only said it our of fear of the sword.” “Did you look into his heart?! Oh Usamah,” replied the Prophet, peace and blessing be upon him. This same kafir may have killed many Muslims on that day, and he was in the act of fighting against the Muslims, yet, as soon as he said the Shahadah, even if it was in hypocrisy, and Usamah didn’t refrain himself and killed him, the Prophet, peace and blessing be upon him, became very upset. The Prophet, peace and blessing be upon him, continued to blame Usamah about what he did for the rest of the day, until Usamah said, “I wish that I became a Muslim after this day” (meaning that he wished that the event never even happened and that he could have a fresh start in Islam). This incident is not mentioned to put blame on Sayyidina Usamah, may Allah be pleased with him. Rather, there is an important principle that we must understand here. The mishaps of the individual companion of the Prophet, peace be upon him, are looked at as a further perfection in the society of the companions. This is so because the goal behind the community of the companions is that we may emulate them, so if no mishaps occurred by individual companions, then we would not know how to deal with a person who falls into error in our time and the times to come. Therefore, the mishap of one of the companions is in reality a perfection on the societal level. All this was so that the realities of what it really means to learn may fully manifest themselves for us. In this incident, the Prophet, peace and blessing be upon him, made firm in our hearts the understanding that even while fighting, our goal is their guidance. So if the enemy shows the signs of being guided, then the fighting between us and them ceases, even if it was an outward form without any true reality. That is why the meaning of the statement, “Did you kill him after he said it, Oh Usamah?!” is that we should not let our drive to fight blind us from the real cause of fighting, which is their guidance. This is why they mention about our master Al-Hussein, the son of Ali (may Allah be pleased with them both), when his army met the army of the mistaken and fugitive Muslims who wanted to kill him, he looked at them and began to weep. The number of Al-Hussein’s men, including the women (non-combatants), did not exceed 80, while the number of the opposition was greater then 3,000. Remember, Al-Hussein is the son of the daughter of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessing be upon him, the beautiful scent of the Messenger (rayhanat Rasulillah, a title given to him by the Messenger himself, peace be upon him), the master of the youth of paradise, the one whom the Messenger made supplication to Allah for saying, “Oh Allah, love the one who loves him (Al-Hussein).” The army had risen against Al-Hussein after pledging allegiance to him. They gathered 17,000 signatures from the people of their land and called Al-Hussein out to them saying “come and lead us to goodness.” So when he went to them they met him with an army of 3,000 men wanting to kill him, most of them being from amongst those who signed the allegiance. These were people who wanted to commit one of the greatest crimes on the face of the earth: killing a member of the family of the Prophet, peace and blessing be upon him! As Al-Hussein stood looking at his deceptive opponents he began to weep. His sister, Zaiynab, saw him weeping so she asked him, “What is it that makes you weep, Oh Hussein? Are you afraid of death? For verily you are heading for your martyred brother Al-Hasan, your martyred father Ali, your mother Fatima, and your grandfather the Messenger of Allah!” Al-Hussein turned to her and said “Woe to you, Oh Zaynab! Al-Hussein is not one to be afraid of death!” “Then what is this that I see upon your face?” she asked. He replied, “Oh Zaynab, I looked at these men who were treacherous to the covenant of Allah that we made, and I see that they will kill me and enter the fire if they have no right for doing so, while I wish that they will go to paradise instead.” This is the meaning that is incumbent upon you to understand concerning jihad. If you understand this while removing from your hearts the delusional power of “physical means,” and “people of means” (ahlul-asbab), while adding to this the realities of da’wah and seeking sacred knowledge, and you take these as means to the foundational purpose of your creation, which is your worship of Allah, you will be from amongst those chosen and elevated by Allah, to the levels of closeness, in this age that we live in. And this is the mission that you came for, if you but understood. This is what you must ask Allah for in these days that end Ramadan, and for the rest of your lives.[/color] |
| 11/25/05 at 19:04:38 |
| Siham |
| Re: How would you respond to this? |
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| Kathy |
| 11/25/05 at 21:23:30 |
| [slm] Siham, Was the above posts for us Muslims or for the good ole' American Farmers? |
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