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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
| Marrying western vs sister from Muslim country? |
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| Anonymous |
| 11/28/05 at 11:07:07 |
| As-salaam alaikum It is not my intention to cause trouble but I wondered what people thought about the idea of finding a wife from abroad compared with marrying a sister from the West From what I can see the benefits of marrying a sister from a Muslim country are: 1. Women in Muslim countries are generally obedient to and respectful of their husbands (which lets face it is one of the most important thing for a woman and what every man wants) they haven't been infected with crypto-'feminism'¯ that many Western sisters have wanted to be like pseudo men 2. They have grown up in a moral environment rather than the corrupt society western based muslimahs have so often have more in built haya as well as good adab and manners 3. If they come from a poor country they will be content with less than a sister brought up in the West expecting all mod cons etc The drawbacks to a foreign wife: 1. They may well be marrying you for your passport 2. The cultural differences and lack of understanding between the couple thereof 3. The difficulties faced over immigration/visa issues especially in these times. 4. Their difficulty in adjusting to life in the West I'd be grateful for any experiences people had from this My apologies for any offence brother |
| 11/28/05 at 14:03:29 |
| jannah |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| jannah |
| 11/28/05 at 12:32:38 |
| walaikum salam, bro, i hope you don't find this offensive, but from your writing i suggest you -definitely- suggest that you marry someone from "back home", cause no 'western sister' would want to marry someone with such prejudiced views. |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| Maliha |
| 11/28/05 at 13:18:30 |
| [slm] Jannah, anon raises some really important points and i do appreciate his honesty. Most guys do have this really retarded notion about the back home vs. western raised women..and this is an awesome forum to discuss/dispel some of those myths. its an issue immigrants everywhere grapple with...and what's so interesting is that the men who end up marrying back home, come back with surprisingly stubborn, materialistic, women and they wonder where the facade of submission went (the truth is, every culture/setting produces its own share and variety of women). i was pretty firm against marrying anyone who had any "back home connection" (and my back home is different from yours anon, i presume). I assumed that all guys from "back home" are expectation laden, submissive woman wanting, narrow minded types. my hubby dearest on his end, wanted nothing to do with women in the west, even those with "back home roots". We somehow ended up together, and three years later, Alhamdullillah we are really happy...throughout our journey together we have surprised eachother a whole lot, and discovered that our differences and commonalities have little do with our "back home-ness". my point is this...if you come up with a list of virtues you really value in someone: like deen, akhlaq, intelligence, kindness etc. then you will find that these virtues exist everywhere. Have your criteria, pray on it, and alert your networks..you will be surprised who you might end up with. good luck. [wlm] |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| jannah |
| 11/28/05 at 14:18:16 |
| wlm, maybe some sisters can write back to dispell the myths you believe in because they are obviously wrong. 'retarted' is a good word for it.... how can you believe those things? i have lived in "muslim countries" and know muslimahs and couples from all over, you just can't generalize and come up with stereotypes like that. it's like saying 'in general muslim men beat their wives'??! is that true?? nur some people i think you can explain things to, but others if this is what they believe there's not much we can do about it unfortunately. to them any sister that even speaks up is "lacking haya, is a crypto-feminist, and is disobedient and disrespectful". basically they want to marry a doormat because they think she will be submissive regardless of what he does and it will make their life easy. then when they actually get married they realize their mistake, but then it's too late. i don't know who to feel more sorry for in the end. |
| 11/28/05 at 14:19:40 |
| jannah |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| lala |
| 11/28/05 at 23:53:55 |
| [slm] I find this predjudiced and distasteful. Granted you are entitled to your comments and with that - so am I. While WE western women are disobedient and immoral- I tend to think that we are educated and smart at the same time. Hope you feel my sarcasm here... :) Western/ Eastern- really there is no big difference. All woman want the same things- respect, love, honor, equality and happiness. You can't sit there and tell me that someone from a foreign developing nation doesnt want education, opportunities for work, equality....etc. YOu just can't. The basis I'm guessing of this so called feminism stems from that. .. Is it wrong to defend yourself? Is it wrong to have rights within the home? Is it wrong to disagree with ones' husband and to voice those disagreements? IF you want something to just sit and obey I suggest you, then please go live with bare walls. Shoot, with all that loneliness perhaps the walls may even start talking back... with love lala lala lala lala salaam |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim country |
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| buL-buL |
| 11/29/05 at 01:40:19 |
| [slm] From what I've seen, a lot of girls who come here from overseas adapt very quickly to the lifestyle here. Their standards start to rise after they see how everyone around them is living. You might get away with not fulfilling her rights for the first couple of years but she will catch on. And not necessarily b/c now she's less oblivious to what Islam has to offer her (ie separate housing from in-laws) but from what she might see around her. Be honest and ask yourself: Do you want a wife, a companion or a servant who will never challenge you? |
| 11/29/05 at 03:15:32 |
| buL-buL |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| dina |
| 11/29/05 at 03:32:49 |
| [slm] i do agree with the others sisters the orignal message a bit prejudice against sisters living in the west...i suppose if the brother had a daugter he would bring her up in the west in an immoral enviroment??? anyway just a comment of marrying someone overseas for brothers and sisters. a big problem i have seen in most marriages is once the spouse visa has been confirmed and they have citizenship, they want to bring their relatives over, such has mother, father, younger sisters brothers, aunts uncles. but they dont realise how much strain this puts on the marriage, in respect to finance, they spoil the home enivroment becuase of lack of space and constant critism of the original person who they came here through....you can imagine i will give you a quick example a sister married a brother from the uk, came here stayed for a year had a child, then left the husband becuase she didnt want to live with the inlaws, the mother in law told the son to move out, but the daugther in law wanted her parent in laws to sign thier house over to her, can you imagine middle age parents, this was their only house and only son where are they suppose to go.......i dont know what happen i am sure not all marriages are not a like that but i would think ten times before marrying someone overseas if you decide to go overseas, think carefully and dont take everything at face value, i have heard women over their do all sorts to impress, i mean what they say may allah SWT give you the best wife [wlm] |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| nouha |
| 11/29/05 at 18:14:07 |
| [quote author=Anonymous link=board=bro;num=1133190427;start=0#0 date=11/28/05 at 11:07:07]As-salaam alaikum From what I can see the benefits of marrying a sister from a Muslim country are: 1. Women in Muslim countries are generally obedient to and respectful of their husbands (which lets face it is one of the most important thing for a woman and what every man wants) they haven't been infected with crypto-'feminism'¯ that many Western sisters have wanted to be like pseudo men 2. They have grown up in a moral environment rather than the corrupt society western based muslimahs have so often have more in built haya as well as good adab and manners 3. If they come from a poor country they will be content with less than a sister brought up in the West expecting all mod cons etc [/quote] thats not true at all... the state of the ummah is decreasing fast ..... this includes muslims all over the world ... not just in the west... i will give my reasons for each one u stated: 1 ) so your saying a girl raised in the west is less obedient to her husband.. i dont noe about u... but ive seen so many happy couples in the west... do u see marriage as only a girl obeying her husband??? its much more than that... they obey each other :) and respect each others opinions... its not just ok whatever i say goes... no its about compromise... 2) just because a person is raised in a muslim country does NOT mean they are more islamic... if anything it means they are more likely to be cultural... there are arab muslim countries that have nude beaches!!! ... agian... just because they are raised in a muslim country doesnt mean anything 3) there are MANY poor muslims in the united states... MANY ... not every muslim comes from a family where the doctor is the father ... mother stays at home to do everything and spoil the child (not saying it always does)... in my family for example... my parents are divorced and my mother has been on her own raising three children... were def not rich however alhumdulilah we make ends meet liek everyone else... hope i made myself clear :) |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| Siham |
| 11/29/05 at 18:55:07 |
| [quote author=lala marcy link=board=bro;num=1133190427;start=0#4 date=11/28/05 at 23:53:55] IF you want something to just sit and obey I suggest you, then please go live with bare walls. Shoot, with all that loneliness perhaps the walls may even start talking back...[/quote] :D :D :D ...... I guess It would have been better for the brother, to simply state that he feels intimidated by smart/sophisticated women..... |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| jannah |
| 11/29/05 at 23:50:20 |
| salam, What's interesting is that no brothers wrote back?? Perhaps they too think and believe these things are true?? |
| 11/29/05 at 23:51:04 |
| jannah |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| timbuktu |
| 11/30/05 at 10:14:33 |
| [slm] [quote]what is interesting is that no brothers wrote back[/quote] This bro did not write back, because he is too far advanced in age to be able to speak for the Muslim men of today. :) Back in the good old days when I wasn't that old and could consider the option of marrying either in the West or from back home, I wasn't very much into "practicing", more into "abstaining", if you see what I mean. My friends in the UK (who were in the West for studies) wanted to marry from back home, because they did think that the Muslimahs in the West could not be vouched for in terms of chastity or obedience. In my undergraduate days in the UK, I did not see many Muslimah in my University, and my Uni was a huge one. I only knew of one Muslimah studying there, and she was religious. A friend (who was doing PhD with her in the same department) married her. They worked as Research Fellows at Imperial for a few years, and then moved to Saudi Arabia, The Muslims coming to the UK were largely from the working classes - Yemeni sailors in Birmingham, Punjabis working in the textile mills of Liverpool, Mirpuris in the North East England (Bradford, Yorkshire etc.). At first they came only for making a living, and they huddled together for community support. They had no intention of settling down, but the system did not let them escape. Gradually they started marrying or bringing their wives from back home. In a few cases marriage to local girlfriends, who may or may not have converted, took place. I had very little interaction with the community, but some of my friends did interact, and I saw some of the community through their good offices. I did not find the community at all attractive. The Muslimahs hardly ever got past school, and they were married off hurriedly to Muslim boys from back home, usually at a young age. To be honest, I believed in class. [i]What a sad reflection on my state of mind[/i]. However. when I went to the UK, I was convinced that I should not marry - a big hangup about insecurity. I did not understand how people make a living, and I had my own misjudgements about the Western society being a prejudiced one. In London, more educated and affluent Muslims could be found, migrants from Hyderabad Deccan. As Muslim students completed their education, took jobs, and settled down, the Muslim middle class began to emerge. What I saw was two extremes: One set of girls waited patiently at home for proposals to come through, and quite a few did not find local Muslim suitors. I think when the number of suitors was so little, Muslimahs started looking at non-Muslims to settle down with. This was initiated or accelarated when the Kenyan Asians came to the UK. There were cases of double identity: some girls would wear the dupatta at home, and would have boyfriends at the Uni. The Muslims from back home had very negative views of the Muslims living in the West. I was different. I had no plans to marry, and looked at all socialisation in a detached sort of way. I did think that if I could address my insecurity, I would marry a girl with a University education. This was in contrast to the wishes of most Muslims that I had met. They thought if a girl gets to a Uni, she is lost. Margaret Thatcher wanted to reduce immigration, and she brought in two types of citizenships. In her days, too, girls started getting more scholarships to Uni than boys, and a certain loosening of the codes did take place. I have read anguished pieces from Muslim mothers (in the US and Canada) lamenting the preponderance of boyfriends (seldom about girlfriends) and girls even getting pregnant in school ot college. The ame from parents in the UK. There was this gentleman who educated his children in exclusive schools in the UK. He and his daughter (a PhD in Chemistry) interviewed prospective Muslim brothers, and his daughter rejected them all, mostly because they were too tomgue-tied. "What will he and I talk over tea or dinner"< she said. She went on to marry a fellow PhD non-Muslim student. In fact here (in Islamabad) I have found that Muslim men want to make friends with women colleagues, but say they will not marry those who work. Karachi is more reasonable in this regard. The local scene is changing. There is more acceptance of women workers, and the realisation that they are not loose, but still the prejudice is huge. I do agree that a University education and a job gives women the confidence to talk back, and that can be uneasy at times, but un- or semi- educated ones can also be found to be a pain in the neck. I know of quite a few Muslims who have come back to Pakistan to marry, but one of my nephews married a Muslimah (born to Paki parents) in the US. If my view is of any relevance, I think these prejudices are stupid, and if these are from the parents, the brothers (and sisters) should refuse to cater to such nonsense. |
| 11/30/05 at 10:22:20 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| timbuktu |
| 11/30/05 at 17:30:20 |
| [slm] I do hope nothing in the above has ben offensive or abrasive. If so, I apologise. It was meant to be friendly, not otherwise. |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| Tesseract |
| 12/01/05 at 02:45:16 |
| [quote author=Anonymous link=board=bro;num=1133190427;start=0#0 date=11/28/05 at 11:07:07]As-salaam alaikum It is not my intention to cause trouble but I wondered what people thought about the idea of finding a wife from abroad compared with marrying a sister from the West From what I can see the benefits of marrying a sister from a Muslim country are: 1. Women in Muslim countries are generally obedient to and respectful of their husbands (which lets face it is one of the most important thing for a woman and what every man wants) they haven't been infected with crypto-'feminism'¯ that many Western sisters have wanted to be like pseudo men 2. They have grown up in a moral environment rather than the corrupt society western based muslimahs have so often have more in built haya as well as good adab and manners 3. If they come from a poor country they will be content with less than a sister brought up in the West expecting all mod cons etc The drawbacks to a foreign wife: 1. They may well be marrying you for your passport 2. The cultural differences and lack of understanding between the couple thereof 3. The difficulties faced over immigration/visa issues especially in these times. 4. Their difficulty in adjusting to life in the West I'd be grateful for any experiences people had from this My apologies for any offence brother[/quote] Wa'alaykum Assalam wa Rahmatullah my dear brother :), I hope you are doing good, and enjoying the best of eeman. Brother, all the 3 qualities that you have mentioned, that is, a) being obedient and respectful, b) having haya, and c) being content with little are very few of many qualities that many good Muslim sisters have here. I believe, for some reason, you have not come across many good sisters, and I cannot blame you for that for Allah 'azza wa jall is best aware of your situation. I absolutely agree with you that you deserve a wife who must have all those qualities, provided you understand and agree that she is bound to be obedient to you as long as you are obedient to Allah subhanahu wa Ta'ala and our beloved Prophet Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam. She is bound to be respectful of you as long as you are atleast equally respectful of her or more than she is of you. Haya is not only a "built in" character, it is learned as well. If you are concerned about her covering properly, and conducting herself properly with the opposite gender, then that is your right to find out before marriage. Even this "haya" is something that I have seen in so many sisters here, and to such an extent that it just amazed me. Many of the sisters were not even provided that proper environment where they could learn adab and manners that you are talking about, yet Allah guided them and gave them the tawfeeq to learn it on their own through whatever means they could while residing here. As far as being content with little is concerned, I cannot say more than this that the sisters who have a good understanding of their religion, do not demand their husbands more than what Sharee'ah obligates. However, using your money to buy things or gifts for your wife to make her happy, and to increase love between each other is quite relative. Some may choose to spend more, some less. My understanding is, sisters as wives, do not look at the "worth", but the "love" that it is brought with. Love is the only thing that they demand most, and that is their absolute right. Alhamdulillah, I am a married person now. I got married just a month back, and my wife is a wondeful person. I took my time to find the right person, and by the blessings of Allah Ta'ala, I did find her. I had many more requirements than what you have. Marriage is a sensitive issue, and finding the right person is not an easy task, it can frustrate you, but patience is the key to success. Know that it is difficult, but not impossible. Allah may test you, but He 'azza wa jall never prevents the acts of righteosuness. I can assure you that there are many sisters here who are MashaAllah very religious, have a very good understanding of their deen, have the quest to learn Islamic knowledge, implement Qur'an and Sunnah in their life, and raise children according to the teachings of Islam. It is only about looking in the right place. My sincere advice to you: Know husbands' and wives' rights upon each other very well before you start looking seriously. Also, know that marriage is not about expecting things from your wife, or demanding rights, but it is more about being patient with each other, and loving each other. Above all, you as a husband will be obligated to teach your wife and child/ren Islam, to love them and respect them, to provide for them, and support them financially, physically, spiritually and emotionally. You have responsibility to make them responsible Muslims. You can private message me InshaAllah, if you wish to discuss more, and I'll try to help you as much as I can InshaAllah. Please, forgive me if I said something that offended you or anyone, for that was not my intention. The life of this world is an enjoyment, and the best enjoyment of the life of this world is a righteous wife: Prophet Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam. Wassalamu 'alaykum wa Rahmatullah. p.s: To the sisters: We are supposed to make 70 excuses for our brothers and sisters in Islam if we see them making a mistake, and not jump to conclusions, and judge a person's intentions. |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| Kashif |
| 12/01/05 at 05:33:10 |
| assalaamu alaikum sheesh kebabs - you sisters need to chill and have a bebzi. I think this would have best been answered by brothers, but i'm sure they've been scared away by the your postings. Anyway, i think there are plenty of cases opposite to those described by the original poster: good sisters who have been born and bred in the West, and rotten apples from back home (the word "chalaak" always comes to mind when i think of this topic). You just need to do your research properly. Kashif Wa Salaam |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| bhaloo |
| 12/01/05 at 10:29:28 |
| [slm] Alhumdullilah good to see Bulwark of Islam and Kashif posting, I really enjoy their posts. :) And I too was shocked as to why the sisters are giving the anonymous brother a hard time and beating him up? ??? I think the brother did a good job by posting anonymously, otherwise he might not ever post here again! Let's face it people, if someone (man or woman) grows up in a morally corrupt environment, more then likely they are going to be a reflection of that environment. There are people that strive to better themselves and stay away from those environments and try to surround themseleves in positive environments (such as the people on the board), but generally speaking this is not the norm. |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| Maliha |
| 12/01/05 at 11:36:27 |
| [quote author=bhaloo link=board=bro;num=1133190427;start=10#14 date=12/01/05 at 10:29:28][slm] Let's face it people, if someone (man or woman) grows up in a morally corrupt environment, more then likely they are going to be a reflection of that environment. There are people that strive to better themselves and stay away from those environments and try to surround themseleves in positive environments (such as the people on the board), but generally speaking this is not the norm. [/quote] [slm] br. bhaloo, that's exactly the point..i have lived in three entirely different continents and can say from first hand experience, fasaad/immorality is really everywhere. Drugs, prostitution, homosexuality are at home in the east as well as the west. There is really not one place in the world that is "morally pure"..its a myth that western expats concoct of their "back home" abodes, perhaps due to homesickness or wanting to hold on to a distant dream...each place has both its fill of virtues and vices. Wa Allahu a'lam. I think the sisters here got offended because anon came off stereotyping all the sisters in the west to being materialistic and so forth. The truth is, i have met some of the best, most intelligent active Muslimahs in the west...again Wallahu' A'alam. [wlm] |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| sal |
| 12/01/05 at 14:09:49 |
| [quote]1. Women in Muslim countries are generally obedient to and respectful of their husbands (which lets face it is one of the most important thing for a woman and what every man wants) they haven't been infected with crypto-'feminism' that many Western sisters have wanted to be like pseudo men 2. They have grown up in a moral environment rather than the corrupt society western based muslimahs have so often have more in built haya as well as good adab and manners[/quote] Since I know well about this issue the above statement is not true I know many divorces cases occurred due the women’s disrespect to their husbands in the Moslem countries. There are always problems and argument between every couple, so if the expression of a woman to say some thing to her husband because she knows how to defend her right is what you mean by disrespect, I don’t think this a kind of disrespect ,and if the silence of a woman due to lack of a way to talk and express things is taken as a respect this is not correct but any way even this silence doesn’t happen by lots of wives in the Moslem countries, they still talk with disrespect so I repeat that statement is not true If the woman knows well about her religion I don’t think she can be disobedient to her husband where ever she is living and the vice versa .The place doesn’t make the woman good or bad if she doesn’t know how to be good from her inside There are very very good mannered and obedient wives in the west and also there are very rude and disobedient wives in Moslem countries so the location is not what we can rely on to judge Every kind of woman is every where But there is some thing we need to ask ?aren’t we men too suppose to be obedient to our wives in their turn ? and ok then who is more obedient? ;) |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| Fozia |
| 12/01/05 at 16:32:19 |
| [slm] Very curious as to what exactly it is you mean by this. [quote author=Anonymous link=board=bro;num=1133190427;start=0#0 date=11/28/05 at 11:07:07] 1. Women in Muslim countries are generally obedient to and respectful of their husbands (which lets face it is one of the most important thing for a woman and what every man wants) they haven't been infected with crypto-'feminism'¯ that many Western sisters have wanted to be like pseudo men [/quote] You know when The beloved Prophet (saw) signed the treaty of Hudaibiya he was concerned as to how to go about reconciling his followers to it. The matter was resolved by His (saw)'s consulting one of his wives and then accepting her advice. So expressing an opinion or putting forward her point of view does not make a wife disobedient. I've grown up in the West, was born and bought up here as it happens, I have to say it has gotten more and more deen orientated here. To such an extent that back home people are shocked that I am the london wali. Years ago I went to India, we were doing the usual round of invites and eating out at each of the ten million relatives (so as to avoid upsetting anyone). Anyway on my way to one of our really close 10 million uncles, unbeknown to me the entire population of the area had come out to catch a glimpse of me. The next day my aunty complained that non of her neighbours would believe I was from london as I was dressed so simple in a shalwar kameez, and my hair was so long and I had no make up on....the woman was actually complaining to my mother about this, I was all of 9 at the time if not younger :o I think one will find both men and women of varying degrees of faith wherever one goes. For the record I really sincerely think you are wrong in assuming that western Muslimah's are more money orientated. People from back home especially the ones from poorer backgrounds tend to be the ones who are more materialistic. To the extent, that I had a sister in law stay with me when I had just had my second daughter, my husband's sister spent the entire time complaining that her brothers only ever gave her clothes... she was very insulting about it and wanted things like shoes, jewelery (diamonds thank-you very much), and much much more, it got to the extent where I was deeply hurt, I give my sisters in-law gifts of a far greater value than I would ever spend on myself, and I have never spent anything on my own parents and family. I even ended up telling the woman that all jewelery I owned was gifted to me from my parents at my wedding (which shut her up for a while, then she insisted that her neighbours sister inlaw gave the neighbour beautiful jewelery whenever she visited, I had only visited my inlaws once in the seven years I had then been married, and in no position to be giving out jewelry as gifts to all my inlaws). I think people who are poor and then come into an environment which they percieve to be rich (by their previous standards) don't understand properly the value of these 'riches' and are more demanding because of it. I'm married to a man from back home, I don't think he regrets it, I'll ask him and let you know. Wassalaam |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| Siham |
| 12/01/05 at 19:10:59 |
| [slm] I really thought you were smarter than this tim; [quote author=timbuktu link=board=bro;num=1133190427;start=10#10 date=11/30/05 at 10:14:33]The Muslims from back home had very negative views of the Muslims living in the West. I was different. I had no plans to marry, and looked at all socialisation in a detached sort of way. I did think that if I could address my insecurity, I would marry a girl with a University education. This was in contrast to the wishes of most Muslims that I had met. They thought if a girl gets to a Uni, she is lost. Margaret Thatcher wanted to reduce immigration, and she brought in two types of citizenships. In her days, too, girls started getting more scholarships to Uni than boys, and a certain loosening of the codes did take place. I have read anguished pieces from Muslim mothers (in the US and Canada) lamenting the preponderance of boyfriends (seldom about girlfriends) and girls even getting pregnant in school ot college. The ame from parents in the UK. There was this gentleman who educated his children in exclusive schools in the UK. He and his daughter (a PhD in Chemistry) interviewed prospective Muslim brothers, and his daughter rejected them all, mostly because they were too tomgue-tied. "What will he and I talk over tea or dinner"< she said. She went on to marry a fellow PhD non-Muslim student. In fact here (in Islamabad) I have found that Muslim men want to make friends with women colleagues, but say they will not marry those who work. Karachi is more reasonable in this regard. The local scene is changing. There is more acceptance of women workers, and the realisation that they are not loose, but still the prejudice is huge. I do agree that a University education and a job gives women the confidence to talk back, and that can be uneasy at times, but un- or semi- educated ones can also be found to be a pain in the neck.[/quote] Well a piece of paper from the Kufaar land or anywhere else for that matter, doesn’t give us the confidence to speak our minds bro, we're not applying for a job opening here, but rather it is our dignity, self-respect and integrity that allows us to do so. Furthermore, we should never compromise our fundamental principles, regardless of the circumstance. because as Muslims we have been ordered by our Creator to stand up for truth and justice, uphold what is right and forbid what is wrong, even if it is against our own selves. Unfortunately it is these kinds of mentalities that shows that we have a long way to go to correct the misconceived and distorted understanding that many of our communities have. I guess its time for me to take a long Madina break ::) wassalaam. MARRIAGE OF MUSLIM GIRLS IN THE USA Marriage of Muslim girls in this country is becoming a problem. I was not surprised to read the letter of a Muslim father in a national magazine. He complained that in spite of his doing his best in teaching Islam to his children, his college-going daughter announced that she is going to marry a non-Muslim boy whom she met in college. As a social scientist I am more interested in the analysis of the events. To be more specific, why would a Muslim girl prefer a non-Muslim boy over a Muslim? The following reasons come to mind: She is opposed to and scared of arranged marriages. She should be told that not all arranged marriages are bad ones and that 50% of all love marriages end up in a divorce in this country. Arranged marriages can be successful if approved by both the boy and girl. That is, they need to be a party to the arrangement. I am myself opposed to the blind arranged marriage. Muslim boys are not available to her to make a choice. While parents have no objection or cannot do anything about non-Muslim boys with whom she talks or socializes at school or college for forty hours a week, she is not allowed to talk to a Muslim boy in the mosque or in a social gathering. If she does, they frown at her or even accuse her of having a loss character. As a Muslim boy put it, "If I grow up knowing only non-Muslim girls, why do my parents expect me to marry a Muslim one?" Some Muslim boys do not care for Muslim girls. On the pretext of missionary work after marriage, they get involved with non-Muslim girls because of their easy availability. Muslim parents who also live with an inferiority complex do not mind their son marrying an American girl of European background but they would object if he marries a Muslim girl of a different school of Islamic thought (Shiah/Sunni) or different tribe like Punjabi, Sunni, Pathan, Arab vs. non-Arab, Afro-American vs. immigrant, or different class, Syed vs. non-Syed. Both the parents and the body should be reminded that the criteria for choosing a spouse that was given by the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was not wealth nor color but Islamic piety. She may have been told that early marriage, that is, age 18 or less, is taboo and that she should wait until the age of 23 or 25. According to statistics, 80% of American girls, while waiting to get settled in life and married, engage freely in sex with multiple boyfriends. However, this option is not available to Muslim girls. Every year nearly one million teenage girls in this country, who think that they are not ready for marriage, get pregnant. By the age of 24 when a Muslim girl decides that she is ready for marriage, it may be too large for her. If she reviews the matrimonial ad section in Islamic magazines, she will quickly notice that the boys of the age group of 25 to 30 are looking for girls from 18 to 20 year age group. They may wrongfully assume that an older girl may not be a virgin. She may also carry a wrong notion not proven scientifically that marrying healthy cousins may cause congenital deformities in her offspring. Thus, unless these issues are addressed, many Muslim girls in the US may end up marrying a non-Muslim or remain unmarried. Reprint Requests: Shahid Athar, MD Clinical Associate Professor Indiana University School of Medicine 8424 Naab Road Suite 2D Indianapolis, IN 46260 reproduced with permission from: http://www.islam-usa.com/index.html |
| 12/03/05 at 02:41:51 |
| Siham |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
|---|
| timbuktu |
| 12/02/05 at 04:48:06 |
| [slm] :) [quote]I really thought you were smarter than this tim[/quote] :) that is the unfortunate story of my life. People think I am smart, but with time they realise I am not. :) Dr Shahid Athar's article does not contradict what I have said or felt. In fact I agree with him. I was writing what I have seen. Let us think about what gives, as opposed to what should give, confidence to people. I can think of: 1. conviction or belief, 2. knowledge, 3. experience, 4. security, 5. ability to articulate Would you agree? Would you also agree that a formal education gives one more edge in these? This does not mean that "all" with formal education have the ability or disposition to "talk back". |
| 12/02/05 at 04:50:17 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| Siham |
| 12/04/05 at 17:27:48 |
| [quote author=timbuktu link=board=bro;num=1133190427;start=10#19 date=12/02/05 at 04:48:06]Dr Shahid Athar's article does not contradict what I have said or felt. In fact I agree with him.[/quote] [slm] Well if that's the case, lets take a look here; Br. Tim wrote: Muslim girls started getting more scholarships to Uni than boys, and a certain loosening of the codes did take place. Dr. Shahid wrote: Muslim boys are not available to her to make a choice. While parents have no objection or cannot do anything about non-Muslim boys with whom she talks or socializes at school or college for forty hours a week, she is not allowed to talk to a Muslim boy in the mosque or in a social gathering. If she does, they frown at her or even accuse her of having a loss character. As a Muslim boy put it, "If I grow up knowing only non-Muslim girls, why do my parents expect me to marry a Muslim one? Some Muslim boys do not care for Muslim girls. On the pretext of missionary work after marriage, they get involved with non-Muslim girls because of their easy availability. Muslim parents who also live with an inferiority complex do not mind their son marrying an American girl of European background but they would object if he marries a Muslim girl of a different school of Islamic thought (Shiah/Sunni) or different tribe like Punjabi, Sunni, Pathan, Arab vs. non-Arab, Afro-American vs. immigrant, or different class, Syed vs. non-Syed. Both the parents and the body should be reminded that the criteria for choosing a spouse that was given by the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) was not wealth nor color but Islamic piety. Br. Tim wrote: I have read anguished pieces from Muslim mothers (in the US and Canada) lamenting the preponderance of boyfriends (seldom about girlfriends) and girls even getting pregnant in school ot college. Dr. Shahid wrote: According to statistics, 80% of American girls, while waiting to get settled in life and married, engage freely in sex with multiple boyfriends. However, this option is not available to Muslim girls. Every year nearly one million teenage girls in this country, who think that they are not ready for marriage, get pregnant. By the age of 24 when a Muslim girl decides that she is ready for marriage, it may be too large for her. If she reviews the matrimonial ad section in Islamic magazines, she will quickly notice that the boys of the age group of 25 to 30 are looking for girls from 18 to 20 year age group. They may wrongfully assume that an older girl may not be a virgin. Br. Tim wrote: I do agree that a University education and a job gives women the confidence to talk back, and that can be uneasy at times, but un- or semi- educated ones can also be found to be a pain in the neck. I wonder why you always tend to use the term "talk back" instead of "voicing their opinions" or "expressing their views", what's exactly wrong with women expressing themselves? Furthermore, you stated that you find it difficult to accept that women also have the right to express themselves (and to be heard as well)... this is indeed the reason for the lack of contribution from the Muslim women, no wonder that our Ummah is in great suffering at the moment. wassalaam |
| 12/04/05 at 17:40:44 |
| Siham |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| jannah |
| 12/04/05 at 23:37:13 |
| Umm question why do you keep calling him br. tim ??? his name is timbuktu... it's like calling u sister si ?? |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| timbuktu |
| 12/05/05 at 09:03:54 |
| [slm] sister Siham, I still do not think there is a contradiction. I was not saying this about many Muslim girls in the West. A few, but they get noticed, and the number has increased. The availablilty of so-called "options" has increased with time, if we consider them options. In India, some Muslim girls started marrying Hindus. These were educated girls. They could not find suitable matches in the community. They wanted a better life than being the wife of a rickshaw driver or a quli. And they saw violence and restrictions in their homes, and they did not want it for themelves. I think the community's unIslamic restrictions (that are passed off as Islamic) are to blame. I went to the UK at age 20, not saying prayers or fasting or reading the Quran regularly. In my entire stay in the West, which spanned eight years, I met both young and women who were in the sex game. I don't know how I managed to avoid it. I do know that there were other Muslim men who abstained, who joined FOSIS, and were active, and those who settled there must have raised wonderful children. I did not interact with the community, but I did get feedback (including reports in the press) on the state of Muslims in the UK. I spent some time in Canada. I have read reports of the scene in the US. I said that the parents are to blame. I said that Muslim boys are to blame. I pointed out that the UK government had a policy of restricting immigration by marriage back home, and worked to increase the representation of Asian (particuarly Muslim) females in the Universities. And I was referring to the codes that the Muslim community held. No, I don't think there is a contradiction, but then my "smartness" has been exposed, no. :) |
| Re: Marrying western vs sister from Muslim countr |
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| Siham |
| 12/05/05 at 20:48:27 |
| [quote author=Anonymous link=board=bro;num=1133190427;start=0#0 date=11/28/05 at 11:07:07] Women in Muslim countries are generally obedient to and respectful of their husbands (which lets face it is one of the most important thing for a woman and what every man wants) they haven't been infected with crypto-'feminism' that many Western sisters have wanted to be like pseudo men[/quote] [slm] Well, I guess I have to consider myself very fortunate then to be married to a successful brother, someone who wasn't looking for a docile woman, that he can walk over and control... But rather he was searching for a Virtuous Woman. Someone that can be a good wife and mother to his children. Someone that can be his best friend and understands his struggles, a soul mate, and most of all a sister. Wassalaam. |
| 12/05/05 at 22:09:28 |
| Siham |
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