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| He Did the Best He Could |
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| Kathy |
| 12/02/05 at 10:08:05 |
| [slm] I read this post from Siham in the Western Woman for Marriage topic. Here is a quote form an article that she posted: [quote]... read the letter of a Muslim father in a national magazine. He complained that in spite of his doing his best in teaching Islam to his children, his college-going daughter announced that she is going to marry a non-Muslim boy whom she met in college...[/quote] This comment put me over the edge. He did his best. ([i]what I will write after this is not about this particular dad, but what I have witnessed of other dads, who 'lost' thier kids[/i]) I am an older Muslimah and most of my Muslim friends have lost a child or two to the other side, whether in Islam or their daughter marrying a non Muslim. Did the Dad really do the best they could? Twenty years ago, before they got religious, they had christmas trees in their home, pictures in their photo albums of their kids dressed for halloween, or of the prom, vacatin memories of the mardi gras. Some even went to secular holiday work parties and had a drink or two. How many of them took their kids to the masjid for prayers? How many of them made sure there were social outlets for their families? How many blew off events at the masjid because they were busy and it wasn't their top priority? How many volunteered on the men's side to make sure their sons had activities to participate in? How many were too tired to take the kids to the mosque for Sunday school or evening classes? How many were too wrapped up in work and trying to assimulate in this culture... and only worked and came home to a meal and spent the end of the evening on the couch in front of the TV? How special did they make our holidays? If they had a western wife, they had to know she was begging to find out how they celebrated it in his country. Was he a help and describe and offer suggestions? or did he sulk and say 'I wish I was back home?!" When was he going to realize this is his home~! And they do... around 40/45 age... when the daughter becomes a teenager. For some reason they never worry about the son...which is a grave mistake because the son will lead his family one day and now has no example of how. Then the dad becomes religious, and it is this time they remember "I did all I could.' But what they do at this period is turn Islam into a religion of 'no's. I know I have said this before but it is sooooo true. No to presents and twinkling trees, no to running house to house or candy, no to summer parks... this is how the kids see it, dad has taken the life out of the only culture and traditions they know. And he has nothing to replace it with. I have seen it and I am now seeing the results. (Mothers have a great deal of responsibility too, this post is about dads, Insha Allah I will post my thoughts about Moms.) I even see the seperation happening in my own home. The lure is soo strong for our kids. We must provide our children with the "proud to be Muslim" way of life not just the idealogy. "He did the best he could." I don't believe it. He just didn't try hard enough because he was wrapped up in his own little world. Parenting is not easy, especially for Muslims. It is easy to be a bad parent. It is hard to be a good parent. Yesterday a second generation Muslim kid was telling me about a play they were in and their mother needed to make her an angel costume. What is the mother/father thinking?? It is Christmas time and your daughters need angel costumes.... think about it! What does the leader of the house say when he sees his wife making the costume? My son is in a play about Egypt and the Pharoh, too. He was showing me his lines and moves of a scene. All of a suden I see him do the bow/prostration of a servant to the master! OMG I almost had a coronary! I watched, because as he went down I saw the hesitation, in his heart, all of a sudden, because he was in front of a Muslim, he knew what he was doing was wrong! Worse yet, he tried to defend his position. "It is just a play, i am not really worshipping. You don't understand mom. " I tried reasoning, insha Allah I got through, but it wasn't until I made the threat of walking right up the stage and pulling him off in front of the audience, if he does it, that worked. At first i thought I would let it go... but rememberd it is hard to be a good mom.... and dad. So when the father of that article said he did the best he could.... I wondered...did he really... |
| 12/02/05 at 10:19:45 |
| Kathy |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| jannah |
| 12/02/05 at 11:14:18 |
| wlm, I agree with you Kathy... I think people use those one or two examples like the imam's daughter in montreal who became a model and then throw up their hands in the air and say well it doesn't matter what we do our kids could turn bad, etc etc... but it isn't true... there is a direct relationship with how parents raise and teach their children islamically and how they turn out later in life. All the parents that always made their kids go to Islamic classes and events and school all while they were growing up until they were ready to go to college turned out good for the most part. Yes there are kids that experiment and go crazy in college, but they are also the one's that go to MSA and at least straighten out towards the end. They have Islam in their hearts regardless of the mistakes or things they do. And that is basically what the goal of every parent should be --- to inculcate islam into their kids and even if they end up making certain choices in their life they know what is right and wrong. Yes there will be anomolies and strange cases, but for the most part it is all about the parents. i can see kids now at 12 who will be good muslims their whole lives, and i can see kids now at 12 that i know will never make it because of their parents and environment. |
| 12/02/05 at 11:36:12 |
| jannah |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| timbuktu |
| 12/02/05 at 11:15:16 |
| [slm] I agree with you. Most of the time it is the fault of the parents,and again mostly the father's. When we immigrants are in the West, we complain of the lack of time to look after the spiritual needs of the children, but we have all the time for our own pursuits. Some of us work a lot of overtime to make money. Those who don't work overtime, while away their time in front of the TV, or on sports, or in uselss socialising. To be honest, not many of us take the deen seriously. It was handed down to us in a plate by the society, and we never thought we will have to work harder at teaching the deen to our children. That is why the ulema have forbidden ordinary Muslims to live and work in the West unless they are doing dawah, but I think that needs to be looked into again, as the numbers of Muslims in the West has risen considerably, and the society in Muslim countries has changed as well. I know I was being lost to Islam, and I am glad I came back here. Even here I wasn't a shining example of a practicing one, but at least the adhan five times a day, the weekly visits for the Jumma prayer, did keep my children within the practice of Islam. I shudder to think what I would have done to my children in the West. Even many of those who are involved in the Dawah, ignore their children, expecting them to pick up automatically. I admire those who do look after their children in such circumstances as they are doing a great Jihad. All the more reason for marrying practicing Muslimahs within the West. However, practical apostacy does exist in Muslim lands. People have either no knowledge of the deen, or have chosen not to follow, because it interferes with their immediate desires, but they have not declared their apostacy. In time, though, as they become older, they come back to the deen. Here it is helpful to be living in Muslim countries. |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| salaampeaceshalom |
| 12/02/05 at 11:49:53 |
| [quote author=Kathy link=board=bro;num=1133532485;start=0#0 date=12/02/05 at 10:08:05] ([i]what I will write after this is not about this particular dad, but what I have witnessed of other dads, who 'lost' thier kids[/i]) "He did the best he could." I don't believe it. He just didn't try hard enough because he was wrapped up in his own little world. [/quote] Salaam sis, altho I agree that parents are failing in this regard and indeed it is hard to be a good parent, and that actually the main repsonsibility of bringing up kids in a good islamic manner is perhaps the sole responsibility of the parents, I feel that it does also apply to siblings. I don't get to see much of my brothers, but I'm saddened by the discussions we have sometimes, and I feel like I have failed them in a way already. One of my brothers a few weeks ago had a car accident but alhumdulilah he's ok and only one other car was involved in the accident. He was driving at a high speed on the motorway and alhumdulilah, by Allaah's Grace, a pile-up was avoided and there were no serious casualties, when in fact there so easily could have been, and it boggles our minds at the near possibility of how much more serious and grave the situation could have been but it wasn't. After this, I spoke to my brother, and I couldn't believe that he had just left me 2hrs ago and that may well have been the last time I could have seen him. He told me the next day that at first, after the accident, all he could think about was that he could have died...However, the next day he had begun to think that God had Saved him out of His Mercy, and he was re-evaluating his life. I asked him if he would let me teach him about Islaam and if he would just give me a chance and listen. He was very hesitant and then almost reluctantly agreed. SubhanAllaah, we have yet to begin :(, and I don't know when we will. All my past efforts have always failed, and when we do discuss Islaam, it usually becomes very heated and the whole discussion falls to pieces. My other brother, ma'sha'Allaah, I feel so saddened by. It appears religion is so far removed from him, that I don't know how I can even begin to speak to him about it. I was hoping he would fast during this ramadhaan and he did...for only a few days and then started making excuses, which upset me greatly. My lil bro, he's four :) and has started school this yr. There is a huuuggge age gap between us but we are very close. Last week when I was at home, I heard him singing xmas carols, and my heart skipped a beat. I just stared at him for what seemed like a long few seconds which just seemed to stretch on for ages, my mind and heart wrestling, unease and unhappiness swirling in my stomach. My mouth kept opening and I was willing myself to say something, but then my mouth would close again and the thoughts 'he's too young to properly understand what I may say to him' and 'what if I say something to him, which he then says to other kids at school, and he's then mocked for it?' went through my head. And you see, I know full well that I should have said something to him...and normally I would have, not caring what anyone would have said to me about it...but yet I didn't...why?? It's difficult belonging to a family where there are people from different ethnic groups, and who come from and follow the beliefs of other so-called 'religions'. Yet at the same time, I feel it is my responsibility to teach my brothers about Islaam, and so far, I have failed to do so. Before, I would always tell my brothers that 'in Islaam blah blah', or 'Muslims do this/don't do this because blah blah'...and now I find that I have started to do this less often and I really do not know why. It makes me sad and I feel that I am not fulfilling my responsibility towards them. I pray that Allaah Guides us all, and Provides us with the ability to fully fulfill our obligations to those around us, and even when we falter, that we are allowed to try again. wa'salaam |
| 12/02/05 at 12:05:32 |
| salaampeaceshalom |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| Leslie |
| 12/02/05 at 12:47:50 |
| [slm] Having been muslim for only about 5 years, I think I come at this question from a different perspective. I agree that many muslim families have their priorities all messed up, as I will show from a few examples from my own experience. 1) In my area, the non-hijab wearing sisters seem to marry faster than the more overtly religious-looking ones. 2) I have personnally been refused by prospective husbands' families on the basis that I am too pale, and thus their relatives from country X would never approve of me. As these types of things keep happening to me, I find myself tempted to start looking for a husband elsewhere. If a non-muslim man were willing to treat me as a prospective spouse in a properly islamic manner (no touching, no 'alone time', etc.), I would find it terribly difficult to refuse him, even though I would know that I must: The lack of appropriate muslim candidates is just too large here. Now, if someone who is actually limiting herself to suitable muslim candidates cannot find a suitable match, how is someone with more lenient tendensies to find a muslim spouse? The problem, therefore, extends far beyond the family of the bride in question above. [wlm] |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| M.F. |
| 12/02/05 at 18:55:35 |
| [slm] Wow Kathy you've nailed it. It's is HARD to be a good parent. I've only been doing the parenting thing for two and a half years but I'm really really scared that I've already messed things up. I'm trying, I am, but am I doing my best? I really can't answer that and I don't know. I don't even live in the west, so I don't have nearly as many temptations and issues to deal with here as parents over there, but really, what is your best???? Where do you draw the line? at this age I already feel like I'm being too permissive. but I'm not sure. What do you do with kids at this age so that it "works"? Right now my son wants to be an imam when he grows up, he imitates imams from TV, he knows quite a few short suras and duaas, but how do you keep that up? He also really loves to watch cartoons and dance around to music. Where do draw the line? We don't "do" birthday parties or go to them, but how do you work through that later on when they get older? What I'm trying to say is, how do you guarantee they won't one day throw it all alway and say, forget it, this is no fun, just as you thought you were on the right track? What if you think you're doing your best but you're just kidding yourself? It's scary. How do you do it? |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| Moe_D |
| 12/02/05 at 21:08:08 |
| Hmm, I read this thread, thought about it, and realized how true it is. I thought reply as this kind of applies to me. I am 22 born and raised in Canada. I never thought about how the influence of your parents really affects you now that I think of it. I truly believe my parents did the best job they could do not that it was any easy. As young boys my dad took us to pray namaaz often, he took us to pray taraveeh knowing full well we would be playing around. He would have us stand next to him and pray and then later we would leave to go play with the rest of that kids that were there. We would often pray in jammah at home. They set really good examples for us. But I remember my friends also being there for namaaz and for the evening Islamic school. So really where did we take two different paths?? When time came to choose what colleges and university to apply, we chose Toronto as we had always lived in a smaller city an hour away so we figured we would move there and have tons of fun. We all got excepted in that university and all accepted that universities offer. But at the last minute I changed my mind and chose a university that was just as good but 25 min drive from home. That was one of the best decisions I made. Now looking back a few years I use to still meet up and chill with them but we grew apart as they were all in to partying and clubbing. Going to a university where I didn’t know anyone was just as tough. I met new people, made new friends but there was always that urge to go out and do what everyone else was doing clubbing going to bars and partying sleeping around with girls and so on. But I would always decline all the offers to go out to those places and make excuses up. Saying " I am Muslim " and cant go, they wouldn’t really buy that because other Muslim friends would be going out for sure. I joined the MSA (signed up) but never once went to a meeting till this day, it’s been 3 years and I have always put it off. I haven’t been to any activities even though I get the email all the time, I have never gone and prayed namaaz with them. One of the things that holds me back is I don’t know anyone in the MSA and just feel awkward showing up, till this day I haven’t gone yet but maybe next semester ill show up. Over the years I have seen how other friends have changed. Some have kids know that are out of wedlock, there parents flip and after a while they accept it. Others have pretty much made it clear that after studying “other” things they no longer believe in Allah. There some like me I guess that have stayed just in between. I believe a lot of it comes down to the parents and the choices they made. A few distant cousins parents at a really early age decided that they wanted their kids to grow up and feel accepted in society and not be discriminated (they were one of the first Muslims that moved in this community) the father decided not to teach Islam to their children. The father has long passed away and now the boys are in their late 20’s getting married. One of them had a church wedding not to long ago. They have no idea what Islam is and have never came to masjid. I see it quite often with parents and how they often let the kids dress up for Halloween, attend the Christmas parties at school and parents work places because “ they are just kids” and I can see how this can play a role later in life. I remember my dad once telling me that if he didn’t practice Islam, then there was a chance we wouldn’t either and that if my father only goes to masjid on jummah then we would only show up on Eid so it was quite important to him that he practice Islam and so do we as it’s a process that starts early in life. wow this is longgg i better stop now take care |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| Fozia |
| 12/03/05 at 09:04:29 |
| [slm] I'm hoping to bypass the entire nativity thing, by sending the girls to our local Islamic school if we're still ehre during their schooling years, or hopefully Inshallah we'll be well settled in a Muslim country be then. Br. Mohammad's point about university was my entire reason for refusing to send my children (regardless of gender) to universities far from home, I will not have any of my children living away untill they're grown up and married. Till then imho children need the love and support of their parents and the grounding and Islamic environment their parental home offers. Funnily we never celebrated our birthdays either, none of us actually knew our birthdays until we went to school (some think this is sad and we were neglected bordering on child abuse, but personally I feel I have had far too many birthdays since, and my days of ignorance regarding this date was far better). Hopefully we will be able to make Islam [i]fun[/i] for the children, I have told my husband we will do family things and the girls must never feel like they are missing out. As we live here, we have Christmas, Valentines, and Easter shoved forceably down our throats. I think, I hope, I will be able to make our own festivals fun for the girls ie both eids Inshallah. I suppose time will tell. My husband's nephew who is currently studying here was disgusted that we only get 2 weeks off for Christmas, he was born and bought up in Dubai where they have an entire month off for Christmas, Eid only gets 10 days wouldn't you know. And they say it's because of the Muslims they are no longer able to call Christmas lights by that particular lable as they risk offending us....riiiight. But it scares me, this parenting lark isn't as easy as it seemed pre-children. Practically every family we know have at least one child who has gone to 'the other side'...... Wassalaam |
| 12/04/05 at 06:59:05 |
| Fozia |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| BrKhalid |
| 12/04/05 at 01:11:27 |
| Asalaamu Alaikum ;-) [quote]Parenting is not easy, especially for Muslims. It is easy to be a bad parent. It is hard to be a good parent[/quote] How true that statement really is! Kathy, thanks for starting such a thought provoking topic and for all the excellent responses thus far. I think you could discuss this issue in so many ways but I wanted to pick up one particular quote: [quote]And that is basically what the goal of every parent should be --- to inculcate islam into their kids and even if they end up making certain choices in their life they know what is right and wrong[/quote] To put it simply, you cannot watch guard over your children forever. One day they will make their own decisions and choices. The effectiveness of a parent is in instilling values and beliefs which become [u]inherent[/u] in the child such that these exist and are maintained in the absence of the parent. Or in other words ensuring children have Taqwa (sometimes translated as God consciousness) such that when they are alone and no one is watching their activities, they end up doing the right thing. So if that’s the case then…..[quote] How do you do it? [/quote] It’s interesting how the other thread in this folder refers to a comparison between living in the West and living in a Muslim country. I was going to comment there but I might as well just add it on to this discussion. Of course environment is a huge factor in a child’s development, but does that necessarily mean that Muslim children living in the West are at a significant disadvantage to their counterparts living ‘back home’? Is one’s environment at home a more decisive factor in influencing the behaviour of our children in comparison to the external environment in the cities we live in? Ultimately I think the following Hadith is the most relevant for all parents and for fathers in particular: [color=Red]"Each of you is a shepherd and each of you is responsible for his flock. The leader is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock; a man is the shepherd of his family and is responsible for his flock; a woman is the shepherd in the house of her husband and is responsible for her flock; a servant is the shepherd of his master's wealth and is responsible for it. Each of you is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock."[/color] Sometimes, myself included, we fail to appreciate the tremendous responsibility we have in raising children and ensuring we nurture them correctly. There is such a thin line between success and failure. For example, parents can teach their children the Qur’an, a reward they will receive in perpetuity as long as the child recites throughout his life. Can one really measure the reward of teaching one’s child Surah Al Fatihah? Alternatively, a child learns a particular bad habit from his parents and fails to correct it during his lifetime. What defence would a parent have if the child accuses his parents for introducing him to his habit on the Day of Judgement? Ultimately it is the exercise of this responsibility that makes parenting hard but I think one can gain comfort in the knowledge that initial recognition of this responsibility is a start and which is why I think we should all be grateful for the origination of this thread. |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| timbuktu |
| 12/04/05 at 03:22:44 |
| [slm] I just came back from the tail-end of a dars by Sheikh Khalilur Rehman Chishti. One thing he emphasised was that the purpose of marriage in Islam is to raise an [i]Islamic nation[/i]. Naturally for that the would-be parents should themselves be practicing, and eager to increase in their eemaan and a`mal, and perhaps involved in dawah, too. By that token, I should not have married, because while I was clear that I do not want to have my children become non-Muslim, that is a far cry from wanting them to be Muslim. Brother BoI, if you are reading this, I am happy that you have found your soul-mate, and I pray that both of you and the children you will be having (insha`Allah) are given the best in both worlds. But I do not think that waiting always gets us what we are looking for. I have been very lucky - my wife was a regular salaati, and when I turned to the practice, the children did not find it strange, although my "excesses" do not go down well with them. There are cases of proposals from less than perfect suitors, and I wish the guardians would agree to marriages from them, rather than wait for the perfect match. It is not necessary that the natives are more inclined towards the deen. I have come to the conclusion (may be erroneous) that this too runs in cycles. The generation after us looks at us, and finds faults with our approach, and adopts another one. That is why I think it is most important to have the vary basics of Islam internalised in our children, and [i]to make them seek everything from Allah[/i]. |
| 12/04/05 at 03:26:30 |
| timbuktu |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| nouha |
| 12/04/05 at 14:18:20 |
| you guys bring up many good points about raising children :) however its important to realize that bringing up a child in a muslim country does not garantee that the child will grow up a good muslim... dont ferget that of all people, muslims are REALLY big on culture than religion... in many muslim countries, the majority, are worse than the west... the kids talk back to teachers ... guys outside flirt and make sexual comments to girls outside... even if they wear hijab/niqab ... there was an article, which i hope to find... that conducted a survey saying how half of egyptians that graduate from high school are no longer virgins.. :( environment certainly does play a big role in how a child is raised however, with very good parenting, one can reduce the chances of their child doing wrong whether in a muslim country or not... :) |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| Moe_D |
| 12/05/05 at 00:26:08 |
| Some really great points have been brought up. theres many parents who dont teach their children enough about islam because they belive there children with become "hardcore" muslims. So they just give them bits and peices of islam but since they dont have enough these children go ashtray. Some parents kinda go out of the way and not provide information on islam at all. I have a buddy who i work with, his parents didnt teach him or give him any information on islam besides "were muslim and we belive in Allah", he is like 20 something years old and no longer interested in islam because he is use to going out and "enjoying" life and dosent want any restrictions. i tried to convince him to come to eid prayers but he now feels that by coming to masjid he would be a hypocrite :-/. i guess parents gota start at an early age to be successful?? |
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| Fozia |
| 12/05/05 at 00:51:57 |
| [slm] The only reason I want to move to a Muslim country for a while, is because Islamic education is more readily available there. A lot of Muslim countries tend to place greater emphasis on the west anyway, almost like they're ashamed to practice their own religion. I mentioned Dubai's long drawn out Christmas and new year celebrations, I was unfortunate enough to be in Dubai during new year a couple of years back, you couldn't move for the celebrating arabs...and I doubt they were all Christian. Wassalaam PS What's wrong with a hard core Muslim then?? |
| 12/05/05 at 00:53:15 |
| Fozia |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| timbuktu |
| 12/05/05 at 08:38:28 |
| [slm] [quote author=nouha link=board=bro;num=1133532485;start=10#10 date=12/04/05 at 14:18:20] .. there was an article, which i hope to find... that conducted a survey saying how half of egyptians that graduate from high school are no longer virgins.. :( :)[/quote] Not just Egypt, but also Malaysia, and I think Muslim countries in Africa as well. Muslim countries are undergoing social revolutions. The urban population is exploding, and education and opportunities for the females have opened up tremendously, with studying and working side by side. The governments have taken loans or attract foreign investment which stipulate a loosening of the tight culture, and opening of the "fine arts" and "communications" industries. And in our discussion with Sheikh Khalilur Rehman, he said that he believes both the so-called secular and deeni education should be imparted, in whatever sequence. |
| Re: He Did the Best He Could |
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| Kathy |
| 12/05/05 at 09:27:50 |
| [quote author=Mohmmad link=board=bro;num=1133532485;start=10#11 date=12/05/05 at 00:26:08]i guess parents gota start at an early age to be successful?? [/quote] Sure, of course starting asap is the best. But remember, there are alot of people, reverts/converts, who came to Islam in their 20's and 30's. Perhaps we should look at this lost generation as possible "reverts." Lately the college students have started to come to the masjid's library. Masha Allah, there are brothers who take out scholoarly type books, others who take out books for non-Muslims and other brothers who are just tagging along. When I started the library I gave away free candy to the kiddies who took out a book. Ah, yes, the parents were irritated with me. However, I explained to them that I wanted the kids to feel comfortable coming to the library and candy was a good way to get their feet through the door. (The library is not what you imagine, it is the size of a large living room.) When I thought of this I applied the same idea to the early 20's Brothers. I got in lots of nasheed tapes, some of the commedian dvds, movies like the Message and Lion of the Desert. Masha Allah, it is working, because the first couple of times they came in, they got the entertainment type stuff. Now they are picking up more substanial knowledge based material. They just needed something to jump start the fitra we know lies deep with in them. I over heard this the other day as I was sitting behind the desk and the brothers were browzing. [i] "Look at everything in here! It's like being in a candy store!"[/i] Exactly...Smile..... |
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